Jump to content

 
 

Announcements

Lots of new items for sale in our store. Click here

Photo

Concealed Carry in National Parks


149 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   RR Hounds

RR Hounds

    Grand Potentate

  • Members
  • 1925 posts
  • Local time: 07:14 AM
  • State/Province or Region:Ca
  • Country:USA
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Northern California
  • Interests:Horses, Dogs, Parrots, Art, Camping, Fishing
  • Camper Brand:2007 Host Bachelor 8.5 SS SB
  • Truck Make & Model:2000 Chevy Silverado 2500HD 4x4
  • Name (Public):Kathy

Posted 06 December 2008 - 02:43 PM

I don't have an issue with it staying here - it appears pertinent to TC'ers as it is a change in the laws relating to parks.

But this is just my .02

Kathy
<p><img src='<a class='bbc_url' href='http://i35.photobuck...dow11-23-07.jpg[url="""]>http://i35.photobuck...-23-07.jpg</a>'[/url] alt='Posted Image' class='bbc_img' /><br /> <br />
Annie, Sydney and Angus<br /><br />
November 2007</p>

#22 OFFLINE   farmer

farmer

    Past President

  • NATCOA Members
  • 1750 posts
  • Local time: 06:14 AM
  • State/Province or Region:BC
  • Country:Canada
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Surrey, BC, Canada, North America, Earth
  • Camper Brand:2003 Bigfoot 30C10.11SL
  • Truck Make & Model:Class 5 2005 Ford F-550 365 cu.in. Powerstroke Diesel4x4 Lariat crewcab 10' flatdeck
  • Name (Public):Rick and Susanne

Posted 06 December 2008 - 02:56 PM

Speaking of lending an firearm, can those of us that live north of the line buy and leave an arm in a safe deposit box down south, to be picked up for southern travels to remote places.

I like the idea of visual deterrents, IE thinking twice about tackling a 6'4" cop instead of a 5' nothing peace officer or the sound of a 12 gauge pump shotgun chambering a round.

George this section maybe dancing on the grey area, but it is about camping security, I will not mention this to my wife, otherwise she would not go camping down south anymore.

I eventually want to try Mexico but she is already scared of the country because of the news reports.

I have not thought of carrying up here, but I now see some valid points even for up here, for certain remote areas.

That's the beauty of this forum get's a person thinking, to cover all points, sort of like carrying spare parts just in case.

#23 OFFLINE   xnorp

xnorp

    Grand Potentate

  • NATCOA Members
  • 3353 posts
  • Local time: 07:14 AM
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Spokane Washington
  • Camper Brand:2004 SnowRiver 9'6
  • Truck Make & Model:2000 F250 PSD 4x4 XLT
  • Name (Public):George

Posted 06 December 2008 - 02:56 PM

Like I said I didn't move it. And I don't think I use personal values to moderate Frank. I just try and think about what I am posting and where I am posting it and what others might think.
xnorp
SPOKANE WASHINGTON
Proud Grandparent of a US MARINE

#24 OFFLINE   PigPen

PigPen

    Founder-Director-IT Admin-Corperate Relations- Root Forum Admin

  • Admin
  • 12473 posts
  • Local time: 07:14 AM
  • State/Province or Region:BC
  • Country:Canada
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Abbotsford BC, Canada
  • Camper Brand:2014 Snowriver 234RBS TT
  • Truck Make & Model:2007 Dodge Diesel 5.9 Laramie SB
  • Name (Public):Paul Beddows

Posted 06 December 2008 - 03:24 PM

You can't take firearms into Mexico, Farmer. Your best protection traveling there IMO is to pair up with other travelers, and never sleep overnight except in an RV park unless in a big group. That is what I intend to do. If I ever get stuck & have to park overnight on the roadside, I sleep in the (locked) truck cab with my machete.

2014 Snowriver 234RBS

 

trailer.JPG


#25 OFFLINE   Dean

Dean

    Grand Potentate

  • Members
  • 444 posts
  • Local time: 10:14 AM
  • State/Province or Region:CT
  • Country:United States
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Union, CT
  • Interests:Photography, Camping, Hiking, Travel, Resonator Guitar
  • Camper Brand:2013 Roadtrek 210 Popular
  • Truck Make & Model:2003 Dodge 3500 Laramie, QC, 4wd, DRW, CTD, NV5600, Jacobs EBrake, Ride-Rites w/on-board compressor, Rickson 19.5, Stable Loads,Helwig rear sway bar, KYB Mono-Max shocks
  • Name (Public):Dean

Posted 06 December 2008 - 06:36 PM

Campers are expecially vulnerable to low lifes. Most travel with cash or other goodies that can be turned into cash and many are older folks that might not be able to give much of a fight. I have a carry permit and am a Life Member of the NRA, but I do not carry as a rule when I camp, mostly because I usually stay in campgrounds with securitty. I would definetely carry if I were boondocking it or staying in a forest service site. I don't know how it is in other parts of the country, but there have been numerous home invasions here where folks have been killed or beaten badly, sad to say things will probably get worse with the economy the way it is. The real world is not very pretty at times and that would be on both sides of the border, crime and crazies are not US inclusive.
The Upsons
Dean, Jeannine
And our Golden Retrievers: Wyatt, Waylon and the spirit of Woody 6/1/98-2/23/10 Rest well, my old friend.
Posted Image

#26 OFFLINE   tankeryanker

tankeryanker

    Grand Potentate

  • Members
  • 886 posts
  • Local time: 07:14 AM
  • State/Province or Region:Oregon
  • Country:USA
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:southern Oregon
  • Camper Brand:2014 Arctic Fox 990
  • Truck Make & Model:2005 dodge q/c dually ctd
  • Name (Public):Glenn

Posted 06 December 2008 - 07:00 PM

QUOTE (d3500ram @ Dec 6 2008, 09:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I could not find the 30 minute version to which you refer (I believe that You Tube has something like a 10 minute limit, so it would have had to have been in parts.)

There was this :Penn Says: Guns and Freedom.

I have only heard of Penn superficially on the humorous stuff, but he seems to have Libertarian views if i can judge him on this click alone.


They were 3 - 10 min videos. Heres the 1st it is not work or kid friendly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfObDFVnfp0...feature=related

#27 OFFLINE   d3500ram

d3500ram

    Grand Potentate

  • Members
  • 1495 posts
  • Local time: 08:14 AM
  • State/Province or Region:.
  • Country:Colorado USA
  • Gender:Male
  • Camper Brand:2008 Northstar Arrow
  • Truck Make & Model:2005 Dodge Ram 3500 SRW Cummins

Posted 06 December 2008 - 07:37 PM

QUOTE (tankeryanker @ Dec 6 2008, 08:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I got an error message when clicking:
The URL contained a malformed video ID.

#28 OFFLINE   narcodog

narcodog

    Grand Potentate

  • Members
  • 522 posts
  • Local time: 10:14 AM
  • State/Province or Region:Ga
  • Country:USA
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:N. Ga.
  • Interests:Fly fishing,fly tying,reading,TC,DW,gardening
  • Camper Brand:Lance 8scs
  • Truck Make & Model:2003 chev.2500HD;6.0;K&N;Edelbrock headers;Corsa cat-back; Rancho9000;Ramsey 9500;Helwig;

Posted 06 December 2008 - 08:10 PM

QUOTE (Farmer @ Dec 6 2008, 05:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Speaking of lending an firearm, can those of us that live north of the line buy and leave an arm in a safe deposit box down south, to be picked up for southern travels to remote places.

I like the idea of visual deterrents, IE thinking twice about tackling a 6'4" cop instead of a 5' nothing peace officer or the sound of a 12 gauge pump shotgun chambering a round.

George this section maybe dancing on the grey area, but it is about camping security, I will not mention this to my wife, otherwise she would not go camping down south anymore.

I eventually want to try Mexico but she is already scared of the country because of the news reports.

I have not thought of carrying up here, but I now see some valid points even for up here, for certain remote areas.

That's the beauty of this forum get's a person thinking, to cover all points, sort of like carrying spare parts just in case.


You can not purchase a firearm from a dealer but you might be able to purchase one from an individual. I am speaking strictly about purchasing a handgun.


#29 OFFLINE   ralphl

ralphl

    Grand Potentate

  • Members
  • 1018 posts
  • Local time: 08:14 AM
  • State/Province or Region:NM
  • Country:USA
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Mexico
  • Interests:Hunting, camping, guns, hunting, fishing, Portabote, travel (for hunting, of course) and reading (about hunting).
  • Camper Brand:S&S Montana
  • Truck Make & Model:97 Ford F-350 dually diesel
  • Name (Public):Ralph

Posted 06 December 2008 - 08:49 PM

Dean is spot-on. We are particularly vulnerable.

I didn't mean to stir the pot with my post, but I guess this is a topic that can trigger some deep thinking - and that's a good thing.

RVers stay primarily in campgrounds and RV parks. T/C er's head for the back country (most of us, I think) the farther back the better. Off the beaten path is usually what drew us to T/Cs and this topic is especially important to us.

Regardless of how you choose to play the numbers, numerics, percentages or per capita figures - the bottom line is, there is a bad person in every state, every country, every province, and every township. It only takes one. The choices we make are simple.

1. We do nothing and hope bad things never happen to us. For most people, that's the case.

2. We leave our safety and the safety of our loved ones as the responsibility of other people, and only hope that they are around if we need them.

3. We take steps to make sure that we are equipped to handle our own emergency when and if it occurs. Given the nature of where we tend to go, the real choices are 1 and 3 - hope it never happens or prepare.

Being prepared with ADEQUATE defense, and then never having to use it, costs you very little and buys you a whole lot of peace of mind.

Canadians come into the US all the time to hunt. Crossing the border with your perfectly legal shotgun shouldn't cost you any more than the time it takes you to fill out the form and declare it. When I bring my hunting weapons into Canada, which I do all the time, it costs me $50 and the time it takes to fill out the form. No big deal. Canada is very particular about what they'll let in, but conventional hunting arms, including a loud shucking Remington 870 are perfectly legal and I would think bringing one into the US wouldn't be any more difficult. That's really all you need. But then, would be the difficulty in bringing a hunting weapon into a National Park in the US. I firmly believe that a majority of the campers in these parks are carrying some sort of firearm. It's kind of a "Don't ask, don't tell" although technically they are breaking the law. I guess you could check them at the entrance gate and pick them up when you leave. But other than National Parks, and some State Parks, it's perfectly legal for a Canadian to drive around the US with a long gun in their camper.

The law change that started this whole post clarified part of that gray area (at least for us CCWP folks) and I fully expect the subject of long guns used for defense will be addressed soon. "Armed Crazies" aren't the whole problem. The numbers of attacks by bears, cougars and wolves are on the increase in the US and Canada. By nature of my profession, I'm acutely tuned into those numbers. Even though we take great pains to keep foodstuffs and garbage away, just having a dog in camp can be a huge attraction to predators. So, this is a necessary thought process each T/Cer should go through, and make an informed decision when you deal with the three options.




Ralph & Laura
The Mutts: Cookie & Mag
The Rig: 1997 7.3L Ford F350 Diesel Dually toting a 9.5 S&S Montana Ponderosa SC with all the goodies, including solar.
Full Banks upgrade. Tork Lift frame mount tiedowns. Rancho 9000 shocks. Airbags. Custom GORILLA Bumper by Northland Fabrication.


#30 OFFLINE   Mr Firewood

Mr Firewood

    Grand Potentate

  • NATCOA Members
  • 447 posts
  • Local time: 06:14 AM
  • State/Province or Region:WA
  • Country:USA
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Twisp, WA
  • Camper Brand:2017 Grand Design Solitude 39' 5th wheel
  • Truck Make & Model:2006 Ford F-550 CC 4X4 6.0L, 2017 Ford F-450 CC, 6.7L
  • Name (Public):George Brown

Posted 06 December 2008 - 09:11 PM

Oh I always love it when the topic of guns comes up on any Internet forum. The topic seems to be so Black and White for people. Either you love guns or are scared to death of them. Or you realize they can be a valuable tool but you keep the gun in a drawer and the ammo in a closet in another part of your house. May as well keep the gun in the tool drawer with your hammer, screw drivers and wrenches. As it will be just as useful in an emergency should your life be threatened.

Just like a hammer or screw driver a gun just sits around the house (mine (guns) are on my hip or in a safe) in the event I need to hammer a nail or screw something. I don't' play with them, I don't brag about them I just let it sit on my night stand at night or sleep in the waist holster in the event someone decides I could provide their next meal, fix or they wish to threaten or harm me. Hey I'm easy going for those that know me. Till you push the threat button and unlike the anti gun types I've decided years ago when I obtained my AK, WA and FL CCW permits that if it comes down to you or me. Well, good luck. Don't bring a knife to a gun fight.

For you anti gun types, some times I carry TWO guns! Yep, I'm twice as crazy as I sound! ohmy.gif Well, at times.

I don't take this topic lightly. Shooting someone is a BIG deal and it will become a very stressful and expensive undertaking but then so would my being killed for my family and friends.

As an American I don't really feel the topic of CCW is political. It's a right and not to be voted on or deliberated on by the talking government heads. I don't feel everyone should carry. If you're not comfortable with guns then don't carry. No one is twisting your arm insisting you buy a gun and defend yourself should your life be threatened.

I personally HATE thieves. Should someone be shot for getting into your car for taking your laptop or stereo or breaking into your house and taking your big ol TV? Tuff call, I don't think so but it sure would piss me off. I personally prefer to draw the line at life threatening situations. Unlike Texas where it's pretty much legal with a few hassles to shoot someone you catch taking your stuff off your property.

Paul, Paul, Paul. A machete! So you do like weapons in your presence? Last time I was in Mexico I saw far more guns, auto rifles, then I ever see traveling in the US. More kids (military) with auto machine guns at BS road blocks just doing their jobs. I didn't have any problems with bandits but I was with a motorcycle tour group.

Rick (Farmer) I would suggest you check and find out if you are eligible as a Canadian citizen with no criminal record if you can obtain a CCW license in WA. I suspect your not eligible but I don't know. Then there is the matter of buying a handgun in WA and cutting all the red tape with background checks the gun dealers are required to put you through in order to sell you a firearm. Heck you might be able to bring a legally owned Canadian firearm to WA and store it down here. I'd store your firearm in my safe for you and you could just stop here on your way south.

As for Mexico, guns and ammo are BAD and will get you thrown in a 3rd world jail for a long time. Not recommended! One bullet found in your possession/vehicle during a boarder inspection will provide you with mega headaches.

This reminds me of an experience I had several years ago. I was entering Canada along the WA boarder and was armed. I drove up in my truck with my wife at the time to customs and we went through the usual questions. When asked if I had any firearms I declared my 7mm rifle and eventually was asked to pull into an inspection area to chat with some more nice folks. I visited the various government divisions and was eventually sent out to my truck with a uniformed customs agent to search my truck. He began digging around the rig and found my unloaded 7mm rifle behind the seat and began to have a cow. Claiming he had discovered an undeclared firearm. I stood there and watched him do his dance and vibrate around the inspection area. After a few minutes he settled down enough that I could talk to him and I pointed out on the document that the original Canadian Customs official had given me to give him and he was holding that I had declared the weapon he was coming unglued about. He looked at the scribble on the Canadian document and indicated I could enter the country. Imagine that? Things at the Canadian boarder have gotten tighter since back then but I really don't enjoy entering Canada due to the red tape. On the reverse I don't enjoy re-entering the US and I live here. I find the US Customs agents less to my liking then the Canadian guys and gals. On a side note: Give the poor Canadian Customs agents side arms already. Would you want to do their job in todays society? I just shake my head ever time they walk off their posts when a threat approaches the Canadian boarder.

Oh well enough of my likes and dislikes. After working in law enforcement for a little over 20 years I came to the realization a number of years ago that the cops can't be everywhere at all times and if you expect them to be at your beconing call, well I hope you do well in Las Vegas. They are there to protect and serve if its convenient but you and only you are responsible for your own personal safety. Being a dispatcher I knew exactly how true this was. Having talked with multiple victims of crimes on 911 who were begging for help and not having the instant help they required sucks! But I only had the resources available the police dept. and citizens of the city I worked for provided the police department. I can't pull more officers out of the magic closet and instantly make them appear at their crisis. People don't generally call the police when they are having a good day. They call when their lives, property or loved ones are threatened. Police staffing is subject to hiring (Most police agencies are understaffed for patrol and dispatch positions) not due to funding but due to a lack of suitable applicants, My ex-agency currently has 8 full time dispatchers and 3 in training for a division that is budgeted to have 15 full time dispatchers to handle 911, police and fire/medical emergencies, (what this means as of today, is the 8 full time staff are working 70-80 hr work weeks to staff the center 24/7, time of day and crime stats also figure into staffing levels when personnel are available.

Over the years of my job I talked to a number of people through their life and death scenarios when their lives were being threated, they were barricaded in their residence and they were armed but what now? Be it an angry armed ex-spouse, burglars, their angry teenagers on drugs and on and on the list goes of people who threaten others. There are lots of nice people out there but unfortunately there are also a lot of real crazy people who don't give a tinkers damn about being hurt or spending time in prison even if it requires hurting or killing others. Most are too stupid to think that far in advance of their current plan to victimize another human being. And don't even get me started on Domestic Violence Orders! Paper shields from bullets, guns or a good ass whooping. That's all they are if the respondent doesn't respect law enforement, the courts and the prison system.

Sorry for the rant but arming yourself for personal protection is a strictly personal choice. IMHO It comes with a huge amount of responsibility which you should weigh before deciding if you're up to the challenge. Paul obviously has and he has indicated he doesn't think he'd shoot someone and doesn't choose to have firearms in his home. I respect that. If your not going to drive nails why buy a hammer. I don't agree but it's his choice. Hang on to that machete Paul.

George
Twisp, WA
NRA Life Member
Retirement: "Every Day's a Holiday & Every Meal's a Banquet"

#31 OFFLINE   NL Ten 2000 RR

NL Ten 2000 RR

    Grand Potentate

  • Members
  • 1092 posts
  • Local time: 07:14 AM
  • Gender:Male
  • Camper Brand:Northern Lite Ten 2000 RR
  • Truck Make & Model:1990 Dodge w/Cummins

Posted 07 December 2008 - 05:23 AM

This IS a good thread. It doesn't have to be totally comfortable to be meaningful.

Regarding reletivity, Mexico's death count is now capable of reaching 700 a month.

Mexican police new hires typically supply their own gun. Some are drug cartel infiltrators.
Wounded Mexican "police" must be hospitalized in the US, to avoid being killed.

Everything in Mexico operates on the shakedown principle. Everything is corrupt and worsening
by the month.

The US and eventually smug Canada will see things get worse. Canada has the luxury of the greatest generator
of wealth in the world soaking up Mexican crime like a sponge. You simply do not have our racial numbers,
either black or latino, as well as whites on drugs. Again..., no racism espoused here. When the US used to be
like Canada in years past, we didn't lock our doors either.

Throw your machete away Paul, I'm sure you don't need it.

Look again at the monthly military death toll in the middle east. It is much lower than the monthly
death rates in several (individual) US cities.

Mexico is collapsing, realtime, into lawless chaos. Travel there at your own ignorance, sense of adventure, etc.

Mexico is nearly in a freefall. Think carefully before going there.

Mexican criminal activity is rapidly flowing northward. There now exist cross-border shootouts.
For the glass is half-full crowd, surely it must be safer farther down south.
Why do you rob banks? Thats where the money is.

Illegal aliens will likely increase up here, when liberals asured everyone that they would go home in a downturn.
Go home to what?

I got lost in Mexico, in a US rental car (not good). I literally saw cardboard shanty houses
with chickens roaming in and out of the shade of the cardboard houses with dirt floors.

These people are destitute and here comes fat gringos in $90,000 worth of truck and TC.
American attractions in Mexico, such as Cancun, have armed guards at the ends of every hall, on every floor.
Holy SH**!!

As an aside, cheaper Mexican diesel is 300 PPM sulfer fuel. 07-08 trucks are not to be fueled on this
old formula. The new standard in the US is 15 PPM.

I want AlaskaShooter for my neighbor!

Gary



#32 OFFLINE   Clattertruck

Clattertruck

    Grand Potentate

  • Members
  • 467 posts
  • Local time: 07:14 AM
  • State/Province or Region:Colorado
  • Country:USA
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Centennial Colorado
  • Interests:Hunting, fishing, and travel, Four wheeling, Photography
  • Camper Brand:2008 Snow River 10.8
  • Truck Make & Model:2008 F450 CC, DRW,PSD
  • Name (Public):Ron

Posted 07 December 2008 - 06:53 AM

Here is my long comment on this thread.

Camping and self-defense
People have already made a big step in personal safety when they recognize that not everyone out there is a friend. There are people who prey upon other people no matter what the laws say. To know this is not being” paranoid”.

The matter of personal security while camping should be on all of our minds. However, a great number of folk give it little or no thought. For the most part, these good people will drift through life without a lethal confrontation. A small number of the unaware will encounter a dangerous or deadly situation and become victims with their last thought in disbelief, "it can't be happening to me!"

People who accept the possibility of criminal attack and plan for it are ahead in the survival game. One must accept that the right of self-defense exists or simply don’t be worried. If being a victim is unacceptable, then certain measures may be taken.

The first principal of personal defense is "awareness". Don't camp in places where the atmosphere is unsavory. Commercial campgrounds that cater to permanent residents often have an unsavory element that may be dangerous when drunk. Be aware of all people around you. Be concerned when someone watches you with inordinate interest. Don't leave stuff lying around unsecured as an invitation to thieves. Be careful about restrooms and showers, go with your children. Investigating nighttime noises should not be a matter of jumping headlong into trouble. A well-lighted campsite is recommended.

Another element of awareness is that a defensive firearm (or bear spray) isn’t much good unless there is sufficient warning time to get it into readiness. Be alert to what is going on around you. If it looks as if a bad situation is developing, get the mind working on the situation and diminish the chance of bad decisions.

Know that it is tactically unsound to confront a thief when you have no means to win if things turn deadly. I had two personal acquaintances that were murdered because they tried to stop an armed robber from looting their campsite. They returned from a hike and accosted the thief who shot them both. He went to the nearest town to the use the credit cards taken from the bodies. The victims would have been better off to not approach the criminal and try to get a license plate numbers from nearby vehicles. No personal property is worth your life.

Having spent many years as a firearms instructor in the area of self-defense, I would admonish citizens who choose to have a firearm for self-defense that it is a complex responsibility. The owner is not guaranteed success by mere possession of a weapon. Just because you have a car, it doesn't mean you can win the Indianapolis race. One must train to be thoroughly familiar with the firearm so the mind is free to sort out the tactical problem.

The traveler should be familiar with the laws of the states in which the firearm is transported. The laws regarding the use of deadly force vary from state to state. Basically, one may never use deadly force in defense of property, and deadly force is acceptable only in a life-threatening situation. If it becomes necessary to use deadly force, and you are legally in the right, remember that you may be in for a serious court problem under civil law. Criminals like to sue folks who injure them while they attempt to attack citizens. So, absolutely avoid the problem if at all possible. Knowing when not to use a weapon is as important as recognizing when to use one.

The best firearm to deter large animal attacks is the 12 gauge shotgun with slugs. A short barrel (legal) is preferred for ease of handling and storage in an RV. If one is not in bear country, a shot load may be better for over penetration reasons. However, too small a shot size may not get enough penetration to cause the opponent to stop his action. A handgun should have a round of sufficient power to stop the fight (such as .45ACP). Adequate penetration is the key issue in wound ballistics. Studies by the International Wound Ballistics Assoc. show that frangible bullets are a not to be trusted in handgun ammo, “hollow points” are not desirable. They seldom work as advertised, and if they do expand they tend to inhibit penetration to vital organs. A round that comes apart on ribs or heavy clothing wont stop the fight.

Chemical weapons can be a deterrent. If pepper spray is selected, it should be a bear spray in a large can. Small containers run out too quickly, and you don’t have a second or third chance for contact. As double duty, spray it is certainly good to have in bear country. As with any weapon, it must be close at hand or on your belt or it is worthless. See the Counter Assault site: http://www.counterassault.com

One last remark, the individual is the only person responsible for his/her personal safety. One cannot depend upon the coincidental presence of the police or rangers. One cannot expect others to give their lives to protect you.

I don’t intend to imply that camping or full-timing are especially risky activities. They are not.

The National Rifle Association publishes a travelers guide for firearms laws.



2008 SD F450 PSD CC 4X4 DRW, Lariat, Auto trans, 4.30 gears, 2008 Snowriver 108. Tow a Jeep Rubicon Unlimited or a Jeep Liberty.


#33 OFFLINE   Mr Firewood

Mr Firewood

    Grand Potentate

  • NATCOA Members
  • 447 posts
  • Local time: 06:14 AM
  • State/Province or Region:WA
  • Country:USA
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Twisp, WA
  • Camper Brand:2017 Grand Design Solitude 39' 5th wheel
  • Truck Make & Model:2006 Ford F-550 CC 4X4 6.0L, 2017 Ford F-450 CC, 6.7L
  • Name (Public):George Brown

Posted 07 December 2008 - 07:02 AM

Great summarization Clattertruck.

George
Twisp, WA
Retirement: "Every Day's a Holiday & Every Meal's a Banquet"

#34 OFFLINE   jhawk282

jhawk282

    Grand Potentate

  • Members
  • 136 posts
  • Local time: 06:14 AM
  • State/Province or Region:Prince Edward Island
  • Country:Canada
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:PEI Canada
  • Interests:Sailing, Traveling , Outdoor activity, Camping, Wood working,Hikeing
  • Camper Brand:2003 Citation Supreme,10`8" Slide
  • Truck Make & Model:2007 Dodge 3500 6.7L Diesel,6 Spd Auto, CC ,LB, SRW, Supersprings, 19.5 Ricksons
  • Name (Public):Clive Johnston

Posted 07 December 2008 - 07:02 AM

This WAS a good thread.But I see it getting heated up. Adrenalen running. Guess I`ll head on outta here.
Smug?????????

#35 OFFLINE   NL Ten 2000 RR

NL Ten 2000 RR

    Grand Potentate

  • Members
  • 1092 posts
  • Local time: 07:14 AM
  • Gender:Male
  • Camper Brand:Northern Lite Ten 2000 RR
  • Truck Make & Model:1990 Dodge w/Cummins

Posted 07 December 2008 - 07:09 AM

To add to Clattertruck's excellent input: Bear with me for a moment.

Canada does not have a tornado ally. Further, if you look at firs statistics, it is silly
for insurance to be paid on any owned home. They simply are not likely to burn down.
Have not canceled your homeowners insurance yet? Well why not.
Same logic applies to concealed carry. Just in case.

Gary

#36 OFFLINE   Mr Firewood

Mr Firewood

    Grand Potentate

  • NATCOA Members
  • 447 posts
  • Local time: 06:14 AM
  • State/Province or Region:WA
  • Country:USA
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Twisp, WA
  • Camper Brand:2017 Grand Design Solitude 39' 5th wheel
  • Truck Make & Model:2006 Ford F-550 CC 4X4 6.0L, 2017 Ford F-450 CC, 6.7L
  • Name (Public):George Brown

Posted 07 December 2008 - 07:10 AM

Clive I don't see it heated up as much as a few of us are speaking our minds on the topic of concealed carry in public and in our National Parks. This change has been a long time coming and it's about time.

George
Twisp, WA
Retirement: "Every Day's a Holiday & Every Meal's a Banquet"

#37 OFFLINE   narcodog

narcodog

    Grand Potentate

  • Members
  • 522 posts
  • Local time: 10:14 AM
  • State/Province or Region:Ga
  • Country:USA
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:N. Ga.
  • Interests:Fly fishing,fly tying,reading,TC,DW,gardening
  • Camper Brand:Lance 8scs
  • Truck Make & Model:2003 chev.2500HD;6.0;K&N;Edelbrock headers;Corsa cat-back; Rancho9000;Ramsey 9500;Helwig;

Posted 07 December 2008 - 08:30 AM

Here is something to ponder; are you a sheep. sheep dog or a wolf. I doubt that there are any wolves here.
In my 30 years of LE I have seen many folks that were sheep become sheep dogs when their families got threatened but usually they were not prepared or the incident. You do not have to be a sheep dog but as was stated BEAWARE of your surroundings, and use common sense.

If I was to camp in the mountains of Northern Calif. I would be very aware of what is going on as the stats just released for Humbolt Co. and the surrounding areas is that there were 5 million marijuana plants in the State and Northern Calif. had the bulk of the seizures. These areas are maned by Hispanic cartel folks which are armed. They are not looking for the camper but for LEO's and others trying to rip them off but they will take measures to protect themselves if the need arises. What I am saying is to be aware of the area you are going to and take appropriate precautions, so far as not going there if you are not prepared.

Last week I went with my nephew to buy his first handgun I told him to practice with it, get instruction and if he has to draw his weapon realize the he is about to take a life. If he is not prepared to do that then he had better leave the weapon at home. If you have to fire a round you shoot to kill not wound. There have been way to many incidents where two things happen you get sued or the perpetrator takes the firearm away from the shooter and then victim of the crime becomes a victim again, because the victim was not prepared for what comes after the shot is fired.

As far as this discussion is going it is pretty mild compared to some others that I have seen.

No matter what you use to protect yourself, gun, knife, spray or ball bat you need to know it's limitations. They adage about taking a gun to a knife fight does not always apply. A trained LEO will have a hard time defending themselves against a knife if the perp is under 21 ft. The LEO had better be prepared to defend themselves in another way as it is very difficult to draw your weapon and fire an effectivly placed shot when someone is that close to you.

#38 OFFLINE   ralphl

ralphl

    Grand Potentate

  • Members
  • 1018 posts
  • Local time: 08:14 AM
  • State/Province or Region:NM
  • Country:USA
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Mexico
  • Interests:Hunting, camping, guns, hunting, fishing, Portabote, travel (for hunting, of course) and reading (about hunting).
  • Camper Brand:S&S Montana
  • Truck Make & Model:97 Ford F-350 dually diesel
  • Name (Public):Ralph

Posted 07 December 2008 - 08:33 AM

In an attempt to bring this thread back to useful information, although opinions are equally valid, here's how you go about getting a concealed carry permit.

You must take a class. Classes are held usually through your local gun shop - if not, they can direct you to the proper instructor. So, sign up for a class.

You'll need to fill out the required paperwork, which will include background checks and fingerprints and oftentimes a sign-off by your local sheriff. Mostly, they're just verifying you are not a felon.

Go through the class and proficiency testing, which usually means taking your chosen firearm to the range and shooting at 5, 7, 10 and 15 yards to demonstrate your proficiency.

After you pass the course, your instructor submits your paperwork and you receive your Concealed Carry permit. Many states have reciprocity, recognizing other state's permits as legal in their state. For a list of reciprocity states, contact CCKRBA or NRA. In some cases, you can apply for a permit from another state without being a resident of that state by simply providing a copy of your existing permit, and paying a fee. Example: Florida - send them $100 bucks, a copy of your CCWP, and they will send you their card. The advantage is you pick up all the states that have reciprocity with Florida as well as your home state. That pretty much covers all the states that issue permits, but check before you hit the road.

Now, to stir the pot a bit further, let's discuss firearm choice. For the non-gun savvy person, a medium powered revolver is probably your all around best choice. They are simple, easy to maintain, instantly understandable, and not confusing during a time of stress. Semi-automatic handguns offer much more firepower, but they require constant attention to their state of readiness, and are not for the beginner or casual user.

I strongly recommend to anyone who is not thoroughly familiar with guns, that they install a laser sighting aid, such as a Crimson Trace, in the grip of their handgun, as this allows pinpoint shot placement without worrying about proper stance, sight alignment, etc. Just put the dot on the bad guy. This is the easiest in times of great stress, and oftentimes that red dot dancing on a bad guys chest can turn a situation around without having to fire a shot. I dealt with this in my recent blog, All Things Guns at www.predatorxtreme.com for those who want more info.

Lastly, make it a point to take your chosen firearm out with some regularity, either to a range or to just bounce a tin-can across a hillside so you stay familiar with its operation. Periodic use maintains a sub-conscious familiarity with your weapon's operation, and that's what can save your life. And don't forget that plinking and recreational shooting is just plain FUN!

Think about - read the entire thread as there are some very valuable (possibly live-saving) comments made here - and if you decide to pursue a concealed carry permit, don't let the process intimidate you. It's really quite simple AT THE MOMENT, but there is a good chance this may become far more complicated given the CHANGES coming our way.

And a big thank you to NL TEN 2000 RR. We live near the Mexican border and it's like living next to rumbling smoking volcano. We KNOW it's about to blow. The police forces were so corrupted by the drug cartels, that they had to bring in the Mexican military, only to discover they were equally corrupt. There is an actual WAR in progress between the various drug cartels and that war is creeping across the border daily. Everything NL TEN said is spot-on and should be factored in by anyone contemplating a trip south of that border.
Ralph & Laura
The Mutts: Cookie & Mag
The Rig: 1997 7.3L Ford F350 Diesel Dually toting a 9.5 S&S Montana Ponderosa SC with all the goodies, including solar.
Full Banks upgrade. Tork Lift frame mount tiedowns. Rancho 9000 shocks. Airbags. Custom GORILLA Bumper by Northland Fabrication.


#39 OFFLINE   tankeryanker

tankeryanker

    Grand Potentate

  • Members
  • 886 posts
  • Local time: 07:14 AM
  • State/Province or Region:Oregon
  • Country:USA
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:southern Oregon
  • Camper Brand:2014 Arctic Fox 990
  • Truck Make & Model:2005 dodge q/c dually ctd
  • Name (Public):Glenn

Posted 07 December 2008 - 09:11 AM

QUOTE (d3500ram @ Dec 6 2008, 07:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I got an error message when clicking:
The URL contained a malformed video ID.


I don't know why Frank. I just clicked on it & it took me right to the video. Maybe something in your settings.


#40 OFFLINE   FedAgent

FedAgent

    Past President, Founding Member, Forum Super Moderator

  • Former Director
  • 3632 posts
  • Local time: 08:14 AM
  • State/Province or Region:TX
  • Country:USA
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas/Montana
  • Interests:Camping and RV's (of course), motorcycles, fishing, home repairs, woodworking, reading, travel, volunteer work.
  • Camper Brand:2007 Newmar Mountain Aire 37 foot
  • Truck Make & Model:Dodge 3500 Cummins, 4X4, Laramie, SRW
  • Name (Public):Larry

Posted 07 December 2008 - 09:37 AM

I'm not sure that it is "smug" position that prevails in some places in the world about guns or the lack thereof. I think it is position of resignation that has been caused by a citizenship that has been emasculated by their government. Certain governments around the world have seen fit, for one reason or another, to remove handguns from their population. Now, the people of those countries are in a position to try and justify what we here in the USA would consider a very bad mistake.

When I read Ralph's original post, like my good friend George, I was also concerned. The post, in my opinion contained good, usable information. Now, when people visit a National Park and are licensed to carry, do not have to think that they are breaking the law when they visit a NP. However, I knew after I read it that the post would raise comments on both sides of the issue. Those that carry and are prepared for emergencies and those that believe that when parked out in the middle of the wilderness or boon-docking in the some city or town at 2:00 AM think that law enforcement at some level will always be there to save their backside.

I spent nearly 31 years in law enforcement, at several different levels, local, state and federal. Everyplace has a certain number of people who are less than stable, mentally. When these fine folks decide that they want to do harm to you, steal from you or rape your wife or daughters, it really does not matter if they are armed with a knife, a baseball bat, a machete or a gun, it is the people that you have to be concerned with, not their choice of weapons. I never believed that the guy on the receiving end of a crime should have to match the level of threat, as is the case in several counties. I have been involved in several situations while on duty and a few off duty, where the situation of me being armed, the bad guys seeing and knowing that I knew how to use a pistol and believing in his little black heart, that I would use it, diffused an incident. Guns are just a tool, like a screwdriver, a vehicle or a fork. In my house and in my RV, I have the tools that I think I might need to be prepared for any emergency that I might face, from a broken water pipe to a flat tire to a nut case breaking a window or door trying to enter. I can not imagine being very enamored with a government telling me that I can not have part of my "tools" at home or on the road. Nor can I believe that any right minded person would believe or feel comfortable with a reassurance from the government that they will take care of any problem that you may encounter or face, at home or on the road.

I am glad, that at least for now, my government has allowed me the right to be be self reliant.
Larry,<br />Corpus Christi, Tejas<br />2007 Lazy Daze Class C and a 2005 Jeep Wrangler toad<br />04 Dodge 3500, Cummins<br /><br /><strong class='bbc'>Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you: 1. Jesus Christ. 2. The American G.I. One died for your soul, the other for your Freedom. </strong><br /><br /><br /><span style='font-family: Arial'><span style='color: #FF0000'>"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit</span></span><br /><span style='color: #FF0000'>violence on those who would do us harm." - </span><span style='color: #000000'>George Orwell</span>




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Sign In