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Three men lost on Mount Hood


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#41 OFFLINE   dontfencemein

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Posted 31 December 2006 - 04:22 PM

These guys had a sad fate, but I by and large agree with Fed Agent. I did not realize Hood County was footing the bills. I saw an interview with one of the rescuers. I thought he said that all their efforts were donated (he said he was a mountain climber and volunteered his time to protect 'his right to do stupid things'). I thought they also said the military help was billed/viewed as a training exercise.

Costs should be paid by those that incur them, but I don't see that happening any time soon.

The inequity in who gets rescue attempts is what really bothers me. Right around the time of this search, I heard a news item of a gentleman whose car was found in Badlands NP; he was from out of state and his family said he had not been planning on spending time in the NP. I haven't heard if he was found, but I know there wasn't a large search and rescue or that would have made the local - if not national - news.

Also, a few years ago there was another gentleman whose car was found on a backroad in the Missouri Breaks in Montana. They spent a relatively small amount of time looking for him in the vicinity of the vehicle and then stopped the search - the county said it didn't have the money to continue. I dislike the idea that no expense should be spared to find 3 mountain climbers in a snowstorm, but a man in the boonies of Montana is on his own. Who made the Mt. Hood rescue a national story? The county? state? fed? family? media? or??? Once a rescue gets national attention, you can pretty much expect alot of money will be spent.

If you participate in a dangerous activity (dangerous = more dangerous than the average person's day to day life), you should be prepared to die or be seriously injured. Fed Agent's description of his motorcycle activities is an example. I imagine he doesn't get on his motorcycle expecting the worse, but he's done what he can to be prepared for the worse. I do backcountry trailriding which has some inherent dangers, but I take the necessary precautions to survive if something goes wrong, and I'm prepared not to survive if something goes very wrong. None of those preparations includes the expectation that someone will come rescue me.
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#42 OFFLINE   FedAgent

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 06:33 PM

Thank you Susan for your posting. I am glad that you said what you did and somewhat agree with me. ;)
Larry,<br />Corpus Christi, Tejas<br />2007 Lazy Daze Class C and a 2005 Jeep Wrangler toad<br />04 Dodge 3500, Cummins<br /><br /><strong class='bbc'>Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you: 1. Jesus Christ. 2. The American G.I. One died for your soul, the other for your Freedom. </strong><br /><br /><br /><span style='font-family: Arial'><span style='color: #FF0000'>"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit</span></span><br /><span style='color: #FF0000'>violence on those who would do us harm." - </span><span style='color: #000000'>George Orwell</span>

#43 OFFLINE   PigPen

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 09:04 PM

A couple of Bozo's went "camping;' on Mt Seymour above Vancouver a couple of days ago & got caught in an avalanche. They were lucky in that they managed to get cell service & were rescued at god knows what cost.

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#44 OFFLINE   Dan Quinn

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 09:22 PM

they should have to pay for it
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#45 OFFLINE   RichConley

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Posted 04 January 2007 - 08:08 AM

they should have to pay for it



"They" won't pay for it. . ."we" will pay for it just as we do now, only in a different way.

"They" should offer rescue insurance for "those" who embark on state, provincial or government land.
Which means "we" will be involved sooner or later..
Of course "you" could always stay at home and never have to pay for it.

All for one, and one for all.

#46 OFFLINE   RedneckExpress

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Posted 05 January 2007 - 03:19 AM

I still vote for making them have mandatory GPS locators. They can choose to sign a waiver on it if they like, where in stated is, "I xxxx, waive the choice of using a GPS locator, and hereby give my consent for the state to not send a search party for me in the event that I become lost." I think that would kill 2 birds with 1 stone, making it easier to find the dumb ones that get themselves in deep shit by making poor choices of when to go hiking (Like in the middle of the bloody winter) and saves the tax payers the money if they refuse to carry one by them waiving the need of the state to spend the cash on them to locate them if they do not carry one.

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#47 OFFLINE   jimd40

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Posted 05 January 2007 - 06:27 AM

well when geo washington crossed the deleware one of his men said its cold..geo..answered...THAT"S NICE......famous words of life......jim

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#48 OFFLINE   mjstin

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Posted 05 January 2007 - 08:24 PM

I'm not sure how other States or Canada do it but in Co. you are assed a $.25 Search and rescue fee for any/each hunting and or fishing License, as well as other varying fee's for outdoor rec. type vehicles, ATV, boat, snowmobile, etc. This fee only became a required charge a few years ago but as far back as I can remember was always voluntary.

It's not an insurace policy but does help offset their costs. They still can and sometimes do come after you for payment if you have to be rescued because of blatent stupidity. I gladly pay this fee anytime I get a License.
Maybe if other states adopted the same type of thing it would help. The link below is the CO policy if anyone out there cares to read it or better yet from some of the previous posts want's to send an idea to there local search and rescue guys
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#49 OFFLINE   DavidB

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Posted 20 January 2007 - 03:06 PM

I can see both sides of this discussion. In some ways I believe both sides are valid. Not everyone is bright enough to do what it takes in life to get by. Whether it be in daily working life or in recreational activity. Some people are smart enough and deny the risks, others are just completely ignorant.
In general we have been promoting stupidity over the last 25 years in fostering a general premise that if you get yourself into trouble, society will bale you out. This really goes against the natural laws, and maybe it's important that we as human beings do this. But the bigger problem that has developed is the expectation that stupidity will not have consequences because society will take care of you. Dependence versus self reliance, and passing off your responsibility versus accepting them is the real issue at hand.

Example: Welfare vs working...
I have a co worker who makes low wages and should probably be given a helping hand because that is all he needs to make his life better. But No, he makes too much money, so he won't qualify for any help at all. (?) We give people handouts for not working and penalize those who would try to support themselves. The sense of a sliding scale, and a basic requirement that you must at least get off your fat butt to do something for yourself doesn't seem to apply.
He himself has a daughter who has numerous children by different fathers, some she was married to and some not, who basically does little but use the children she has to bilk the tax payer into supporting her. Food stamps, housing, healthcare, etc, and still even though she and her "husband" could easily work enough to pay for what little they have to, they waste money, sell off food stamps, and then plead with Daddy for help.

Young girls intentionally drop out of school, get pregnant and live off of handouts rather than work on developing a life. Then what of the kids they raise? Don't expect them to be the best & brightest. Essentially they are not people anymore but have a closer resemblance to leeches.
Get out the SALT.

Victims of circumstance often don't get the help they need, because too many intentionally draw off resources or do it by their own negligent behavior. These are the consequences of years of "breeding" less than desirable attributes in societies members by the forementioned policies.

I think we need to review how we look at what we have promoted and change course.
How many starving people could have been fed for a period of time with the resources lost because some idiots went unprepared mountain climbing in winter?
Unexpected weather?.... it's WINTER in the mountains... anything should be expected.
Mountain Lions, Grizzly bears, sprained ankle, broken back, sun burn, cold exposure... give me a break.
When I go for even a simple hike in areas I am unfamiliar with, I take food, water, gear, some sort directions and a basic first aid kit.
"Be Prepared" is not just for military activity, its for life in general.




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