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Snowriver bob retires


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#21 OFFLINE   sirwilliam

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 11:17 AM

Dear Steve,
Been there and done that., We started as a manufacturer of top end 5th wheels. I had a lot of experience from General Coach. The Citation is a good brand name, and I am sure you will be pleased with your 5th wheel. But if you are looking for a camper with a slide-out. I kept a few secrets for myself.

Bob
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.....Yes Bob, I saw, firsthand, the excellent quality of your TCs at a dealer in Penticton, but for the life of me I can't remember the name. They also sold another fine quality product by the name of NEWMAR. Huge coaches and triple axle fifth wheels were but a few of the many NEWMAR products on their lot.
.....Your campers on display there were A-1 in my books and even my wife, who is very fussy, thought she hadn't seen a finer quality camper in the OK valley. She particularly liked your rear kitchen models with the forward bath. My only concern at the time was weight, especially when packing it on a 3/4 ton. Dan (PR Connection) showed me my concerns were unwarranted as he packs a 9.6 SB on his K2500HD with notta problem. Keep them comin' Bob and maybe I'll add a SB to my RV collection someday. Thanx for the info....................Steve...

#22 OFFLINE   Bigf00t

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 02:58 PM

[attachment=414:attachment]Glad I got my camper last week before Bob retired. We love our new Snowriver 10-2. I just finished installing a water filter system and the microwave. Next will be the flat screen TV. While at the factory we installed the sleep number bed and it was a perfect fit. Our first night at Bobs place it got down to -10, so it put the camper to the test. No condensation on the windows and non under the matteress. Kept us warm and comfy. Our camper came with the silver bubble wrap on the sleep deck." Bob does listen."
Until you experiance the Snowriver hospitality, of the folks at the factory and Bob and Heather you will never understand what you are missing.
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Nice rig ya got there Jim. Who`s the scruffy looking dude with the beer ? And why are you letting him stand so close to that beautiful truck of yours ? He looks like someone that would own a Ford. :P
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#23 OFFLINE   Monkey44

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 03:33 PM

Wait, Wait ... one more question about the BARS !! I have not been to a bar in Canada in quite while ... when I was last there, in Calgary, we went to a bar and when we wanted to move to another table and chat, or something, we had to call the attendant to actually move our glass of beer !! Is that still true ... seemed like a great hassle at the time because the attendants were always very busy -- and I wonder if that law didn't contribute to it ... seems like they should serve the beers, not have to move them for us everytime someone got up.

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#24 OFFLINE   PR Connection

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 06:28 PM

Wait, Wait ... one more question about the BARS !! I have not been to a bar in Canada in quite while ... when I was last there, in Calgary, we went to a bar and when we wanted to move to another table and chat, or something, we had to call the attendant to actually move our glass of beer !! Is that still true ... seemed like a great hassle at the time because the attendants were always very busy -- and I wonder if that law didn't contribute to it ... seems like they should serve the beers, not have to move them for us everytime someone got up.



Never heard of such a thing. Here in BC when the beautiful unclothed women moves to one side of the stage or the other we just finish our beer , move to a closer view seat and order another beer. Try coming to BC next time ....... we are much more liberal. LOL


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#25 OFFLINE   sooty1234

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 11:25 PM

Nice rig ya got there Jim. Who`s the scruffy looking dude with the beer ? And why are you letting him stand so close to that beautiful truck of yours ? He looks like someone that would own a Ford. :D



Bigfoot, That feller is the Snowman and it was to early for beer so he had to settle on some coffee. You will notice that Big Al is there to make sure that the Snowman doesn't make off with the money :D when I handed it over before driving off on our new Snowriver adventures.
The Snowman's fairly new Ford wasn't running so good and I tried to talk him into getting a better truck . I even let him get up real close so he could get a good look at the quality, but some fellers never learn. :) You can see another of his retired trucks just behind my great new SR. But Hey, he builds one fine camper so what can I say......... Jim

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#26 OFFLINE   Kodiak K99

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Posted 03 March 2006 - 03:19 PM

Well, I decided to do it today. Went from 16"tires to 18"tires. Very expensive upgrade, new tires and rims are attatched to a new Ford 350 shortbox 4x4 deisel Lariat. had to upgrade the GVWR to 11,200lbs to experiment with putting our 9'6"camper with separate toilet and shower on a shortbox Ford. The center of gravity works so I will check out handling capabilities and try to stay legal (or close to it) Will let you all know if it works. Bob
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Bob, glad to hear you got new rubbers for the truck...I mean tires. Should be able to hang some mean corners near those mountain corners :lol: . But I have to ask, why would you be foolin around with those short stroke 6ft boxes when you could slide on one of your bigger SR's on an 8ft box? <_<
Looks like I'll have to make another trip back to Penticton, never did get to that fancy Burger Joint with the shinny pole. :lol:
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#27 OFFLINE   Snowy Bird

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Posted 04 March 2006 - 07:12 AM

Wait, Wait ... one more question about the BARS !! I have not been to a bar in Canada in quite while ... when I was last there, in Calgary, we went to a bar and when we wanted to move to another table and chat, or something, we had to call the attendant to actually move our glass of beer !! Is that still true ... seemed like a great hassle at the time because the attendants were always very busy -- and I wonder if that law didn't contribute to it ... seems like they should serve the beers, not have to move them for us everytime someone got up.


There is some type of strange law here in Alberta. I haven't seen it when just moving from one table to the next, but if you're moving from the lounge into the dining room, then the servers have to carry your drinks for you. I guess they figure you're going to run out the door, onto the street with drink in hand and spill it on someone. The spilling part might have some validity, as they don't want fisty cuffs (that's wolfpack slang for a bar fight) in their establishment.
We also have to go to special "liquor stores" to buy our booze. There's none at the corner Safeway.


#28 OFFLINE   Snowriver1

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Posted 04 March 2006 - 12:01 PM

Bob, glad to hear you got new rubbers for the truck...I mean tires. Should be able to hang some mean corners near those mountain corners :lol: . But I have to ask, why would you be foolin around with those short stroke 6ft boxes when you could slide on one of your bigger SR's on an 8ft box? <_<
Looks like I'll have to make another trip back to Penticton, never did get to that fancy Burger Joint with the shinny pole. :lol:


To answer your question, there are a lot of people out there with shortbox pick-ups. They would love to have a camper with a dry bath. All manufacturers start to build dry baths on units 10 feet and larger. our 9'6 Snowriver/Snowbird has a large dry bath, and the center of gravity is so far forward it works on a shortbox. The Ford 350 shortbox has a GVWR of 11,200 lbs, truck weighs 7,200 lbs 9'6 camper weighs 3350 wet. Add that all up and the package without people should weigh 10,550. Leaving 650 lbs for driver and skinny wife. If the driver weighs 200 lbs and passenger weighs 150 lbs this still leaves 300 lbs for beer. If you load 500 lbs of bubbly you will be approx 200 lbs overweight, on a shortbox with dry bath. Far cry from a lot of rigs on the road. So as you can see, whether or not it will work, all comes down to the beer. What better excuse to give the accountant for buying a new truck. Old truck needed tires anyway. Had to RETIRE one way or another.

Bob
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#29 OFFLINE   xnorp

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Posted 04 March 2006 - 12:59 PM

Thanks for the explanation on the RETIRED Snowman love to hear you explain things in a manner that we all can understand. LOL LOL
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#30 OFFLINE   sirwilliam

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Posted 04 March 2006 - 01:14 PM

To answer your question, there are a lot of people out there with shortbox pick-ups. They would love to have a camper with a dry bath. All manufacturers start to build dry baths on units 10 feet and larger. our 9'6 Snowriver/Snowbird has a large dry bath, and the center of gravity is so far forward it works on a shortbox. The Ford 350 shortbox has a GVWR of 11,200 lbs, truck weighs 7,200 lbs 9'6 camper weighs 3350 wet. Add that all up and the package without people should weigh 10,550. Leaving 650 lbs for driver and skinny wife. If the driver weighs 200 lbs and passenger weighs 150 lbs this still leaves 300 lbs for beer. If you load 500 lbs of bubbly you will be approx 200 lbs overweight, on a shortbox with dry bath. Far cry from a lot of rigs on the road. So as you can see, whether or not it will work, all comes down to the beer. What better excuse to give the accountant for buying a new truck. Old truck needed tires anyway. Had to RETIRE one way or another.

Bob
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Now Bob, not meaning to be argumentative nor phacecious here but as you know dry weights, wet weights or what have you can very drastically change from one owner to the next. Does your wet weights include pots and pans, camping tools ie: axe, shovel, chains (for pulling Fords and Dodges when they are broke down :lol: ), and all the other neccessities for the camping lifestyle as well as a generator, TV, food and clothing?? If so then that's a very good weight for a camper with slide. My average Okanagan when I had it all loaded up was 3500# and it didn't have a slide also, as you know, it was not the quality of a Snowbird TC. Your camper weighs in at 3300# and I'm wondering if you're exceedng the GAWR of 6830# of that SRW F-350?? I know from experience my 10.5' Okanagan seemed to get heavier every year. This may ring true for all TCs.................Steve... :lol:

#31 OFFLINE   Snowriver1

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Posted 04 March 2006 - 05:11 PM

Now Bob, not meaning to be argumentative nor phacecious here but as you know dry weights, wet weights or what have you can very drastically change from one owner to the next. Does your wet weights include pots and pans, camping tools ie: axe, shovel, chains (for pulling Fords and Dodges when they are broke down :lol: ), and all the other neccessities for the camping lifestyle as well as a generator, TV, food and clothing?? If so then that's a very good weight for a camper with slide. My average Okanagan when I had it all loaded up was 3500# and it didn't have a slide also, as you know, it was not the quality of a Snowbird TC. Your camper weighs in at 3300# and I'm wondering if you're exceedng the GAWR of 6830# of that SRW F-350?? I know from experience my 10.5' Okanagan seemed to get heavier every year. This may ring true for all TCs.................Steve... :lol:


Dear Sir William,
You make some valid points, Most camper manufacturers do not put the actual weight of a camper on the rear sticker. I read of one that read 3100 lbs and then ended up 4100 lbs. Always put the camper on your truck and weigh it before you write the cheque. Almost everyone out there with a camper is overweight. The question becomes what is your comfort zone. these vary drastically. I had a couple fill both dinette seats in the slide with large rocks (geocites) complained the slide was slow. I am trying to find a way for people that have a shortbox to have a dry bath. This may mean they have to leave out some things. Some of the things I've seen on and in campers, Motorcycles, boats, boat motors, 400 lbs of apples, 2 Great danes, enough tools to repair a GM product, firewood, if you give them the storage they will fill it up. Storage areas in the wrong places can greatly affect center of gravity. Rear bumpers with storage lids gather tire chains, tools and other heavy items and hang 4 feet over the rear of the truck adding to the problem. With any camper common sense is as important as tire ratings. The 11,200 GVWR on the new Fords are what drew me in this direction. Is Ford better than Dodge or GM? At this time only in the GVWR department. It may work putting a dry bath on a shortbed it may not. But I have to try. At one time a slide-out in a camper was a gamble, but I had to try. And as long as I can keep trying I will be in the RV business. When GM comes out with a Duramax, shortbox, one ton with a 12000 lb GVWR I hope they take Fords on trade.

Bob
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This year I plan to build a 9'6 as my own camper, I will carry it on my shortbox pickup. As my wife and I fill it with all our camping needs I will weigh it and give you all the actual weights. Good or bad. I will also be honest about handling and any mods made to the truck. It will be interesting to get some feedback from camper people. Not wanting to start a weight police discussion. Possibly get some ideas on how to lighten it up, or what to leave at home.

Bob
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#32 OFFLINE   ChopperBill

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Posted 05 March 2006 - 07:38 AM

A 9'6 on a short bed! Boy the Weight Nazis will have a time with that one! If you can pull it off you will probably win the TC Pulitzer award!

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#33 OFFLINE   Monkey44

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Posted 05 March 2006 - 10:47 AM

QUOTE: "A 9'6 on a short bed! Boy the Weight Nazis will have a time with that one! If you can pull it off you will probably win the TC Pulitzer award!"

Seems to me it's a matter of balance not necessarily weight. I have an 8'6' camper in my short bed, and it's only 2190 lbs wet and loaded. My truck can carry a 2880 lbs camper according to the glovebox sticker. And that includes 150 in each seat, which I rarely do. So, technically I can add another 450 lbs if the rear seats are empty. That means I can safely carry 3330 lbs. If you add another 12", that's not so much as long as the weight, and that probably means the heavy stuff goes forward, is balanced and does not add to the rear. COG is more important than total weight and (as has been discussed here and there forever) most TC's run heavier than GVW ratings. It will be difficult to get all that weight forward, true, but if the heaviest components, the water tanks for example -- mine is against the forward bulkhead and at 27 gallons adds about 200 lbs when full -- about 9% of the weight and if that shifts to a rear black/grey tank, could effect balance. However, if the shower and black/grey tanks stay forward, and the kitchen/dinette stay aft, that might make the difference in COG because that water weight change will not transfer as we use the water ...

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#34 OFFLINE   Snowriver1

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Posted 05 March 2006 - 11:07 AM

QUOTE: "A 9'6 on a short bed! Boy the Weight Nazis will have a time with that one! If you can pull it off you will probably win the TC Pulitzer award!"

Seems to me it's a matter of balance not necessarily weight. I have an 8'6' camper in my short bed, and it's only 2190 lbs wet and loaded. My truck can carry a 2880 lbs camper according to the glovebox sticker. And that includes 150 in each seat, which I rarely do. So, technically I can add another 450 lbs if the rear seats are empty. That means I can safely carry 3330 lbs. If you add another 12", that's not so much as long as the weight, and that probably means the heavy stuff goes forward, is balanced and does not add to the rear. COG is more important than total weight and (as has been discussed here and there forever) most TC's run heavier than GVW ratings. It will be difficult to get all that weight forward, true, but if the heaviest components, the water tanks for example -- mine is against the forward bulkhead and at 27 gallons adds about 200 lbs when full -- about 9% of the weight and if that shifts to a rear black/grey tank, could effect balance. However, if the shower and black/grey tanks stay forward, and the kitchen/dinette stay aft, that might make the difference in COG because that water weight change will not transfer as we use the water ...


Good call, as people who own my 9'6 already know, the fresh water tank, propane bottles, fridge, can drawer pantry and all closets are located forward of the center of gravity. when you load most of your stuff you are adding weight forward and the center of gravity moves even further forward. I believe the floor plan of this particular model lends itself to making this work. I will certainly let you know.

Bob
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#35 OFFLINE   sirwilliam

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Posted 05 March 2006 - 11:32 AM

Dear Sir William,
You make some valid points, Most camper manufacturers do not put the actual weight of a camper on the rear sticker. I read of one that read 3100 lbs and then ended up 4100 lbs. Always put the camper on your truck and weigh it before you write the cheque. Almost everyone out there with a camper is overweight. The question becomes what is your comfort zone. these vary drastically. I had a couple fill both dinette seats in the slide with large rocks (geocites) complained the slide was slow. I am trying to find a way for people that have a shortbox to have a dry bath. This may mean they have to leave out some things. Some of the things I've seen on and in campers, Motorcycles, boats, boat motors, 400 lbs of apples, 2 Great danes, enough tools to repair a GM product, firewood, if you give them the storage they will fill it up. Storage areas in the wrong places can greatly affect center of gravity. Rear bumpers with storage lids gather tire chains, tools and other heavy items and hang 4 feet over the rear of the truck adding to the problem. With any camper common sense is as important as tire ratings. The 11,200 GVWR on the new Fords are what drew me in this direction. Is Ford better than Dodge or GM? At this time only in the GVWR department. It may work putting a dry bath on a shortbed it may not. But I have to try. At one time a slide-out in a camper was a gamble, but I had to try. And as long as I can keep trying I will be in the RV business. When GM comes out with a Duramax, shortbox, one ton with a 12000 lb GVWR I hope they take Fords on trade.

Bob
Snowriver1

This year I plan to build a 9'6 as my own camper, I will carry it on my shortbox pickup. As my wife and I fill it with all our camping needs I will weigh it and give you all the actual weights. Good or bad. I will also be honest about handling and any mods made to the truck. It will be interesting to get some feedback from camper people. Not wanting to start a weight police discussion. Possibly get some ideas on how to lighten it up, or what to leave at home.

Bob
Snowriver1


Bob:
Thanx for the great response. Now if Imay be so bold as to ask another couple o' questions. I take it since Ford upped the anty and now have a SRW F-350 with a GVWR of 11,200, did they also up the max weight ratings of those single tires?? It's great to have all that GVWR but what about the weakest ink here which is the tires.?? Yes you're right about the overweight issue and comfort levels and all as this was one of the reasons I switched to a 5'er. I was tired of drivin' down the road wondering what would happen if I had a blow-out or if I had an accident and it was deemed my weight was the cause factor. Would ICBC deem me responsible and recupe from me partial or all of the cost of the accident?? I would really like to see one of your larger campers (9.6 & up) without a slide. I realise you only have slide models. Our OK TC didn't have a slide and had plenty of room, storage space (to much). I sometimes wish I still had it to go fishin' with. Thanx again for you ifo, Bob............Steve...

#36 OFFLINE   Monkey44

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Posted 05 March 2006 - 01:19 PM

And Bob, my camper has the shower aft, and the black tank under it, and the shower drains into it too. But the grey tank is under the eave on the driver's side. SO, this set-up has less effect as water is used. And I'm pretty light on my GVW anyway, although I do haul a light cargo trailer sometimes too ... but then, most of the extra weight gets stocked in the trailer. But normal riding, without towing, I'd say the heavy campers need that water forward all the time because you lose weight forward as well as gain weight aft as the water fills the holding tanks. Kinda a two-edge sword there -- weight transfer has a greater effect on COG than simply adding weight forward or aft. We can adjust how we load the weight when packing, but the tanks are where they are, and we can't change that.

One other thing too ... I generally travel with FW tank full (or partly full) and waste tanks empty, and usually dump before I leave a campground. So, that means my COG is usually as forward as practical when traveling. But, if one is boon-docking or back-country camping, the dumping is not as easy always ... so the water placement is more important if a heavy camper has a COG problem to begin with - which is more likely with a short-bed truck.

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