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Payload vs GAWR RR

Payload Towing Camper Truck Duramax 2500hd

8 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   RatherBOutdoors

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 01:20 PM

Ok, I'm new to this site, but not new to campers.  I know this topic has been beaten to death on multiple sites and it is still clear as mud to me.

 

I have a Chevy Silverado Ext. Cab 4x4 with long bed and the Duramax/Allison set up.  I also have an 9'9" Elkhorn camper.  

 

The specs...

Curb weight of my truck is 7220 lbs.(just came from the scales and I account for 215 of the 7220).  For purposes of easier math, we are taking me out and rounding to 7000 lb curb weight.

GVWR - 9200

Added different tires which should yield an additional 400 lbs to my max load over the stock tires that were used to calculate 9200

In theory, I'm up to 9600 lbs 

My GAWR RR is 6084 lbs

 

I'm trying to figure out how the payload (GVWR + added max load from new tires - Curb Weight OR 9200 + 400 - 7000) of 2600 lbs relates to the GAWR RR of 6084 lbs.

 

My camper has a dry weight of 2910 lbs.  I'd like to move up to a 3400 lb camper (smaller in length, but offers a slide out).  Based on average increase to calculate a "wet weight", I'm guessing I'm around 4000 lbs already.  This means I'm looking to jump to roughly a 4400 lb total weight solution.

 

Without considering the GAWR RR, between the curb weight and an estimated 4000 for the wet camper, I'm already over my payload by 1400 lbs (not including passengers).

 

I have had this set up for 5+ years and I'm getting a pretty decent ride.  I will be adding sway bars shortly from Torklift to clean up the side to side in windy situations, but the math has never added up.  I also tow a 20' Alumaweld, but my GCWR is 22000 lbs and my boat loaded weighs less than 3000.  Not concerned with what I tow, only what I'm hauling.

 

Bottom line...how much should I rely on Payload vs GAWR RR?

 

Thanks in advance to anyone that will "weigh in" on this dilemma....pun intended.

 



#2 OFFLINE   Hempomatic

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 02:51 PM

OK, I'm not the most knowledgeable about this stuff, however ......... 

Your GVWR is 9200, curb weight is 7200.  My math skills aren't the best, but that gives you a 2000 lb capacity.  A 4000 lb camper is 2K over.  The only way to accurately determine your axle weight is on a CAT scale.  As far as not being concerned about what you're towing, you still have tongue weight to consider, and that gets tacked onto your GVWR and GAWR.  

Load the camper, go to a CAT scale and you'll see that you're over weight on your tires as well.  

Using my camper as an example, I have a 3/4 ton Ford.  For all intents and purposes, very close to your ratings, however I have a gas engine which is probably 300 or 400 lbs lighter than the diesel, thus giving me additional payload.  My camper is 2200 dry, 3000 wet and I'm running the ragged edge on my weight ratings as far as GVWR and my tire load ratings.  I have 6200 lbs on my rear axle.  My tires are rated 3200 lbs each.

 

Remember, you can upgrade your tires, wheels, add spring capacity, put in a heavier sway bar and add stable loads,  but you STILL have a 6000 lb axle rating, around 6000 lbs of tires as well as 3/4 ton brakes.  You can add all the suspension upgrades you want, but ultimately, it's still a 3/4 ton truck and you are going to be about 2000 lbs over your limits.  

THAT said, I'll bet there are more guys running over weight than under.  I met a guy on the road that was carrying a 6000 lb Host camper on his 3/4 ton Chevy on stock tires. He's been running like that for a few years.  Doesn't make it right however.  

  



 


Edited by Hempomatic, 24 August 2017 - 03:00 PM.


#3 OFFLINE   Bedlam

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 03:22 PM

My short bed Ford F250 weighed about 2750 lbs on the rear axle when empty and close to 7000 lbs when I loaded my Arctic Fox 811. I also towed an 8000 lb enclosed trailer behind the camper which brought my rear axle weight close to 8000 lbs.

If you research AAM or Sterling axles, you will find the actual axle rating is close to 10k lbs but limited by suspension and wheel limits. In my case, I had the Camper Package with overload springs but still needed the help of Torklift and Firestone suspension products. With 18" wheels, I could carry the camper within tire capacity, but had to upgrade to 19.5's to be able tow the trailer at the same time.

2012 Interstate Car Carrier ICC10220TA3, 20'x8.5', 8" I-beam frame, dual 5200 lb 4" drop torsion axles, Diamond plate, Towmax 225/75R15 LRE tires on galvanized rims, Harbor Freight 10k lb equalizing hitch, Camping World vent cover, LED lighting, 3' RV door, front and rear door interior light switches, interior plywood walls and floor, 70' of Harbor Freight E-track rail with recessed corner 5k lb D-rings, Dual 42 gal fresh water tanks with Harbor Freight transfer pump, portable dual  Harbor Freight 45w solar arrays, 100 lbs LPG in four bottles, PowerArmor Max Solar 5-battery box, Deka 24HR3000 sealed batteries

 

2015 Ram 5500 HD 4wd Tradesman 60" CA, Crew cab with 173.4" wheelbase, 19,000 lb GVWR with 26,000 lb GCWR, Cummins I6 6.7 liter diesel with chassis cab tune 325 hp @ 2800 rpm and 750 ft-lb @ 1700 rpm, Aisin AS69RC 6-speed automatic, New Process NV271 manual transfer case, 14.5k lb Dana S14-111L limited slip and 7250 lb Magna Steyr 275mm with 4.44 ratios, Palfinger Badger low sill flat bed, Dual DeeZee 36x18x18 under bed boxes, Quad DeeZee 48x18x18 above bed boxes, Curt Double Lock 30K lb gooseneck, Dual 3/4" horse stall mats, SuperHitch Magnum 30K dual receiver with 42" SuperTruss, Upper StableLoads, Short range FastGun turnbuckles with locks

 

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#4 OFFLINE   Hempomatic

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Posted 25 August 2017 - 09:30 AM

I wasn't implying it couldn't be done.  I'm not an engineer.  The numbers are the numbers, I try not to argue with them, I don't know enough about the real world tolerances.  I'd say the 19.5" tires are pretty much a necessity though.  



#5 OFFLINE   wirenut

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Posted 25 August 2017 - 03:37 PM

You didn't get enough information on your trip to the scales. You should have gotten individual axle weights for the front and rear. You likely already have about 3,000 pounds on the rear axle empty. Going by your "new" rear axle rating with the upgraded tires that gives you about 3,400 pounds of capacity for the camper on the rear axle.

Your truck, being a diesel 2500, has the EXACT same axle under the rear as a 3500 SRW. Adding the tires (why not just do it right and go to 19.5" tires) and some air bags will increase your realistic weight carrying ability significantly. The GVWR on a same year 3500 SRW is 9,900. 

Really, the axle is rated for some where around 10,000 pounds by AAM who made it. 



#6 OFFLINE   RatherBOutdoors

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Posted 25 August 2017 - 04:40 PM

New info....Went to the scales empty and loaded with camper.

Just truck was 2900 in the Rear and 4320 in the front and 7220 overall.

With my current camper, I'm at 4540 in the front and 6180 in the Rear.

 

My current rear axle rating is 6084 (exactly twice as much as the single stock tire rating of 3042).  I've upgraded the tires to a single tire rating of 3415.  Does that stand to reason that my new axle rating would correspond to twice the new tire rating????  I.e. 3415 x 2 = 6830....Not an engineer either, so I'm not sure.

 

Assuming the GAWR Rear is based on the weakest point (i.e. wheel, tire or axle actual rating) and my weakest rating is my tires, then I'm good on the GAWR Front, good on GAWR Rear and about 1500 over on GVWR.  

 

Will weigh Tongue Weight of my boat so I have all the stats.  Anyone else care to admit they run way over their GVWR?


Edited by RatherBOutdoors, 25 August 2017 - 05:45 PM.


#7 OFFLINE   RichConley

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 05:56 AM

Not WAY over the GVWR
 
Front Axle: 4800 lbs.
Rear Axle: 9350 lbs.
 
:::  14,150 lbs   <--total weight, two people, average amount of gear, fuel, food and water.  Includes towbar weight.
 
Jeep::: 5050 lbs   <--loaded with gear, partial fuel
 
Rear tire load weight is a couple hundred pounds below the tire ratings.
 
Camper height: 11' 9" to top of AC unit
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#8 OFFLINE   Hempomatic

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 06:03 AM

With the new camper, you'll be a little over 11,600 total, and even with the new tires, you have about 7000 on the rear axle so you'll be at the tire limit.  The trailer will bump you a little over that.  

 

As far as tire limits, my brain tells me that limit is calculated by lawyers, not engineers.  19.5" wheels would be more ideal, but like me, your wallet may be helping make that decision. I'm running the ragged edge of my limits, any more weight and I'd be a little nervous.  

 

I'm always curious what others do as far as weight limits.  I check other folks set-ups whenever I get the chance.  Out of the dozen or so I was able to get info from the owners, most are overweight by WAY more than I'd be comfortable with.  The biggest mistake I've seen is folks with 1 ton SRW trucks thinking they can put as much weight as they want on their trucks.  I saw several F350s and 3500s with enormous campers and stock tires and wheels, as well as the 2500 Chevy I mentioned carrying a huge Host camper.  Air bags seem to be the most popular game in town as far as compensating for the extra weight. I have the heavy duty Helwig sway bar and Torklift Stable loads, no other modifications which works fine for me.  If I go with anything heavier however, I'll definitely go with 19.5" wheels and heavier duty shocks.    



#9 OFFLINE   dvanceman

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 05:15 AM

I have a 03 dodge 3500 srw and camper is a northern lite 10-2 cdse. Ive added 19.5 wheels and tires, sway bar and better shocks and stable loads.The camper loaded up weighs 3400 lbs and I don't travel with water in tanks. The 19.5 wheels and tires are about twice the weight of the stock set up.The trucks gvwr is 9900lbs the truck weighs in at 8000 lbs so that's 1900 lbs of payload. The truck and camper weigh in at 11400 lbs I'm 1500 lbs over the gvwr with all the add ons the whole set up rides just great. The 19.5 wheels and tires are the best thing you can do. When you weigh your truck make sure you take the tail gate off and a full tank of fuel.







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