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truck camper weight in glove box vs payload weight.

camper weight sticker payload camper size popup a/c shortbed models

22 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   bayouxman1

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 06:49 PM

I'm looking to buy my first TC.  I've done a lot of research about WHY to have a TC over other RVs.  I like the mobility as I spent my entire adulthood in the Army.  Just retired.  I apologize if some of my questions have already been covered and I just didn't find them in the established threads.  

 

1. Found a sticker while looking for my truck manual to see how much camper I could put back there and it actually said, Truck camper weight   This is different than the payload of my truck (3120lbs). The sticker said 2157lbs for a truck camper. I have a 2015 2500HD WT equipped with trailer brake.  Unfortunately, I have a shortbed 6'6".  I was looking for an rv, (most likely a toy hauler) so wasn't thinking about the shortbed "issue" of TC's.  I'm also not finding a lot of TCs below that weight without going to a popup.  I like the escape hatch on the roof.  Allows me to pop out up there to get a good look around at night if I hear something I don't like.  I know adding reverse leaf spring helpers and better shocks will help with the load, but don't think that actually changes payload capacity.  I have seen a lot of threads to us cherry's saying stay below 3000lbs for a 2500.  Please advise. Oh,the sticker also gave measurements A=112cm and B=15cm. ?

 

2. Popup vs hardside.   I've read a lot about condensation issues in popups vs hardsides.  I know from staying in small units in every environment from desert to arctic condensation is going to happen regardless.  Get a dehumidifier.  I haven't seen any popups with a/c.  I live in the deep south. By deep south I mean, coastal Mississippi.  Its hot, its humid, it would be hell.  I've been more comfortable in Iraq at 120 F with full body armor and no skin showing but my face than here around August in shorts, straw hat and t-shirt.  In a way a popup would allow me more camper than hardside due to weight, but gotta have a/c.  Please advise.


Edited by bayouxman1, 10 April 2017 - 07:07 PM.


#2 OFFLINE   bayouxman1

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 06:54 PM

I'm looking to buy my first TC.  I've done a lot of research about WHY to have a TC over other RVs.  I like the mobility as I spent my entire adulthood in the Army.  Just retired.  I apologize if some of my questions have already been covered and I just didn't find them in the established threads.  

 

1. Found a sticker while looking for my truck manual to see how much camper I could put back there and it actually said, Truck camper weight   This is different than the payload of my truck (4306). The sticker said 2157lbs for a truck camper. I have a 2015 2500HD WT equipped with trailer brake.  Unfortunately, I have a shortbed 6'6".  I was looking for an rv, (most likely a toy hauler) so wasn't thinking about the shortbed "issue" of TC's.  I'm also not finding a lot of TCs below that weight without going to a popup.  I like the escape hatch on the roof.  Allows me to pop out up there to get a good look around at night if I hear something I don't like.  I know adding reverse leaf spring helpers and better shocks will help with the load, but don't think that actually changes payload capacity.  I have seen a lot of threads to us cherry's saying stay below 3000lbs for a 2500.  Please advise. Oh,the sticker also gave measurements A=112cm and B=15cm. ?

 

2. Popup vs hardside.   I've read a lot about condensation issues in popups vs hardsides.  I know from staying in small units in every environment from desert to arctic condensation is going to happen regardless.  Get a dehumidifier.  I haven't seen any popups with a/c.  I live in the deep south. By deep south I mean, coastal Mississippi.  Its hot, its humid, it would be hell.  I've been more comfortable in Iraq at 120 F with full body armor and no skin showing but my face than here around August in shorts, straw hat and t-shirt.  In a way a popup would allow me more camper than hardside due to weight, but gotta have a/c.  Please advise. 

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#3 ONLINE   Bedlam

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 08:03 PM

Your rear wheels are most likely rated for about 3000 lbs each giving you the low payload rating - Your axle is rated over 10K lbs from GM's supplier. If you are a stickler to sticker weights, your choices will be slim and will result in more of well outfitted shell verses a fully self contained camper. You can go with a pop up or hard side and end up at about the same weight. The pop up will drive better with a lower profile and CG, but not be a weather resistant and convenient as a hard side.

 

My short bed F250 hauled around a 4000 lb camper and towed a 20' enclosed trailer without issue, so it is possible but will require about $4000 in wheel and suspension upgrades to get there.


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#4 OFFLINE   vanceman

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 03:49 AM

You can also weigh your truck with a full tank of fuel and tail gate off. Then subtract the gvwr from the weight of the truck then you have your payload. Go to truck camper magazine web site they answer a lot of questions there.



#5 OFFLINE   towpro

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 04:09 AM

I think you will find your "recommended camper load" is calculated by taking your max payload, minus 160 lbs for each seating position (6 seats)



#6 OFFLINE   RichConley

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 05:08 AM

I don't know why they put a camper weight restriction in the glove box.  In all the reading that I've done over the last 12 years, I've never read a good explanation of it.  My 2015 F350 dually had a single 8.5 x 11 inch paper among all it''s literature that stated that a truck camper was not recommended for this truck!  I had purchased it new with the explicit purpose to use it for a truck camper.  Apparently, nobody cares about the "glove box" restriction.

 

That said, Bedlam is dead on.  Tires and rims are the bottleneck on payload and all the manufacturers de-rate the truck carrying capacity to meet the rim/tire capacity.  You're solution will be to upgrade tires and rims plus heavy duty shocks. 

The $4000. upgrade price mentioned is most likely.



#7 OFFLINE   bayouxman1

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 09:14 AM

I already have 275 E rated tires. I also have heavy duty leavespring helpers. Was going to put better shocks on regardless. I know it can handle most 850 series campers, I've seen plenty of 2500s with them and read forums of people who have the. I've driven far less stable rigs in the Army. I'm going to go with airbags, blisten shocks. There are load rated F tired now all terrains. Might look into them.

Edited by bayouxman1, 11 April 2017 - 09:15 AM.


#8 OFFLINE   KnightEagle

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 11:59 AM

Air shocks are good for leveling only you will need level loads or super springs. Dont just depend on the air bags. They are great for bed loads not for tall un steady loads like TC/ With TC you will get more sway than you care about. A sway bar helps with that.


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#9 OFFLINE   wirenut

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 03:56 PM

The sticker in the glove box assumes you have a passenger in every seat of the truck weighing about 150 pounds. If that's not the case your available weight for a camper will go up accordingly. Also, staying under the GVWR is not something that many TC owners do, particularly with a 2500 series truck. If you stay under your tire and axle ratings you will be fine. As mentioned, upgrading to 19.5" rims and tires will greatly help your ability to carry a heavy camper. 

I personally used to carry my 11' TC on a SRW Chevy 3500 at about 1,300 pounds over the GVWR but withing tire and axle weight limits. I now carry it on a Chevy dually at about 1,600 pounds over the GVWR but withing tire and axle weights.



#10 OFFLINE   bayouxman1

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 04:07 AM

First, I really want to thank all of you for responding so quickly.  I really started thinking about everything ya'll said about the manufacture rating load capacity based on tires and rims.  I looked at the tire sticker on the door jam.  Unbelievable.  They put 245's on this truck. A 2500HD with 245's,  I'd like to meet the boy genius who thought that through.  I bought the truck used from a guy who had a 5th wheel so it had 275/ 70 17s load E tires already on it.  245's would definitely limit the load to what they had on the sticker.  It did correlate.  I'm taking all of your advise.  I'm putting leafspring helpers and blistin shocks along with a rear sway bar.  That is a definite.  I will probably put airbags more for redundancy than anything.  I don't really trust airbags.  This is kinda a dream I've had for a long time.  Me and a buddy of mine while in the Wounded Warrior Brigade on Ft Hood dreamed of getting old Army Deuces and building RV's on the back then touring the country since we would be capable of going ANYWHERE.  Honestly though, I worked on Army trucks my whole career.  haha....just don't want to do the work on a Deuce. But, 2500 HD 4x4 will be close enough without all the work and get me most places I want to go.  Is there anyone here who's near Mississippi?  The dealers don't sell them anywhere near here, can't find anyone out here with one.  I'd really like to go see some in person without having to drive 500 miles.  But, think that's what its gonna take. 



#11 OFFLINE   KnightEagle

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 06:34 AM

you have a TC in Amarillo dont know the name off hand but PJ at PrinseCraft in Austin there a TC Dealer also she treat you right. As for Mississippi closes is at idea rv center 4764 Hwy 5 N Mountain Home AR 72653 just over 240 miles then I know of one in NC.


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#12 OFFLINE   Skyhammer

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 01:13 PM

When I bought my 2011 Ford DRW, I found the camper certification in the glove box, it was 875 lbs. less than the payload sticker on the drivers door.

I called Ford and they said that an engineer would email a response.

The engineers response was that it was all about load height. 

An equal weight load at bed height is much different than the same load at 13' high.

Makes sense to me. 5000 lbs. of cement in 90lb bags at bed height makes the truck behave much differently than a tall 5000lb camper.



#13 ONLINE   Bedlam

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 01:32 PM

I think they let a smart-mouthed janitor respond to your query. The reduced camper load verses payload is the assumption that each truck seat will be filled with a 150 lb occupant. This will be 750 lbs or 900 lbs in most extended and crew cabs and 300 lbs or 450 lbs in most standard cabs. That published number has nothing to do load height.


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#14 OFFLINE   bayouxman1

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 09:25 AM

Ok Pete....be nice. He does have a point about the height of a load, but you are correct.  They figure in the max passenger capacity and deduct it from the load capacity.  I've done some more research and found they factor in max passenger and the load capacity of the tires and rims as well.  The payload capacity depends on many variables.  How many passengers, weight of passengers, tire load ratings, suspension components, and center of gravity.  Load height has more to do with load stability than load rating.  As with any vehicle and vehicle component, the manufacturer cannot predict the upgrades you put on it.  Only what they equip it with. So, once you start upgrading its up to the individual to know what that upgrade does and how much it will add to the system.  

 

Is there anyone out there who is running both airbags and leafspring helpers?



#15 ONLINE   Bedlam

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 09:51 AM

The payload sticker on the door jam is the one takes in account the truck classification weight limit, options selected and actual weight of the truck. The sticker in the glove box just takes that computed payload minus the number of seats available @ 150 lbs each. There has never been a reference I could find that denotes load height derating payload although I will not argue that stability is decreased as the height is raised.

 

My F250 was optioned with the camper package wich gave it the upper overload spring and rear stabilizer bar. It ran the the upgraded 18" wheels for more tire capacity and was later upgraded again to 19.5" since I was running within 50 lbs of each rear tire maximum when I loaded everything up. I used both the upper StableLoad pads and lower StableLoad wedges to carry my 4000 lb camper - This was about 7000 lbs on the rear axle. I had an additional 1000 lbs of tongue weight from my enclosed trailer and used Firestone airbags inflated to 50 PSI to compensate for that additional hitch weight on the extension. Although I could pack the camper and trailer to stay under 7500 lbs on the rear axle, I was typically closer 8000 lbs after I went the 9000 lb rated 19.5" wheels.

 

My 5500 currently has no suspension upgrades, but I expect to be carrying 2000 more lbs with the Host filled with supplies and water. I have upper StableLoads awaiting install if I get too much rear sag once completely loaded, but with the Arctic Fox and trailer I was barely touching the overload springs and still rear high.

 

Firestone sells two different air bag kits. One kit sits on top of the leaf springs and attaches to the side of the truck frame rail. The second kit sits on the axle bump stop and replaces the frame rail bumper. The latter kit has less suspension travel but is used when gooseneck or fifth wheel hardware interferes with installation of the first kit (may also be needed based on the helper springs you install). Although I had no problems with my Firestone bags (mounting hardware was too soft grade and replaced), I would probably choose another brand that has built in bump stop so you do not need to maintain a minimum pressure in the bags to prevent wear damage.


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#16 OFFLINE   PACK4TAG

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 07:52 PM

The 450 pounds for the back seat passengers cannot be used on the hitch for instance.



#17 ONLINE   Bedlam

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 08:16 PM

That's why you have to take the advice from people that read the tags as unalterable with some doubt. Once you understand how and why that payload number is generated, you can work with you have more smartly or figure out which weakest link to upgrade. I even know someone that added a tag axle (who I won't name), yet there are some nay-sayers that claim this does nothing for payload...


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#18 OFFLINE   KnightEagle

KnightEagle

    KnightEagle

  • NATCOA Members
  • 1915 posts
  • Local time: 12:12 AM
  • State/Province or Region:Tx
  • Country:USA
  • Gender:Male
  • Camper Brand:2017 Adventure Alp 116DS
  • Truck Make & Model:2012 Ram 3500HD DRW
  • Name (Public):KnightEagle

Posted 16 April 2017 - 08:13 AM

As for air bags and spring helper's as you called them. I place around 30lbs in them before I place the TC on the truck after that I let air out till the truck just off the overloads qitch is off the helpers. At this point I hook on the trailer. I use the bags as a ride height adjuster so the truck and trailer dont run down the road heavy ended. It also tows better.


  :sign0007: I got it fixed!

 

2012 Ram 3500HD DRW. RideRite 5000 Air Bags. Hellwig sway Bar rear. Curt hitch 17000/2550. Engine: 6.7-Liter I6 Cummins® Turbo Diesel Engine Transmission: 6-Speed Automatic 68RFE. 2017 Adventure Alp 116DS 5153+ lb. Reg Cab. Torklift Frame mounts. Ranch Hand Front Bumber, Duel hitch and 4' extension . C.B channel 19 most times. Towing a 16 ft storage trailer with a jon boat inside.

 

ALP116DS2017
ALP116DS10.JPG

 


#19 OFFLINE   Wanky

Wanky

    Grand Potentate

  • Members
  • 167 posts
  • Local time: 12:12 AM
  • State/Province or Region:Alberta
  • Country:Canada
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Calgary
  • Interests:Fishing, Hiking
  • Camper Brand:Northern Lite 811 Q Classic
  • Truck Make & Model:2016 GMC 3500 Duramax
  • Name (Public):Eric

Posted 29 April 2017 - 08:38 AM

As far as I know, the only difference between a factory SRW 2500 and 3500 badge is the stuff you have already upgraded in your truck; the springs and the tires.

 

Our stock 3500 SRW Diesel handles our Northern Lite 8'11" Q Classic at 2500 lbs dry without mods and I hardly know it's back there, even with our 3500# boat in tow.  I just checked and the stickers say I can put on a 3100 lb camper.

 

I know we're packing the usual thousand pounds of other junk along with us, and the camper weight on the Northern Lite is actual weight from a factory scale on a completed unit, with options.  That's another topic you can read about, is how the weight on most back wall camper stickers are prior to adding any options.

 

We started with a 2006 2500 GM Duramax, and it was a bit small for this load.  We put on Supersprings, which helped.

 

We're happy with out setup.  There is three of us and a dog.  Assuming there are less than 3 people in your gang, you have plenty of options.



#20 OFFLINE   Jillneddie

Jillneddie

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  • 72 posts
  • Local time: 12:12 AM
  • State/Province or Region:Ms
  • Country:USA
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Fishing,hunting, camping, travel,grand kids
  • Camper Brand:2014 artic fox 992
  • Truck Make & Model:2015 3500 cc longbed, diesel srw, 4&&4
  • Name (Public):Eddie

Posted 29 April 2017 - 05:46 PM

Bayouman1, I live in Mississippi and have a truck camper. My former camper was on a chevy 2500 shotrbed. Your truck will easily carry a Artic fox 811. Look it up, it's a short bed hard side. Artic fox makes a quality camper. The mods you may need are stable loads and timbrens and maybe a sway bar. I didn't change out the wheels. I carried all over the country for five years. We wanted a little bigger camper and I bought a gmc 3500 long bed. I put a Artic fox 992 on it and love. The truck is single rear wheel and I put the stable loads and timbrens on it and sway bar. Always put a heavy rubber mat in the bed. I have fast gun tie downs and torklift mounts. I bought my af 992 new in west Pueblo Colorado. We love our camper and pull a boat. The mods I mention are relatively inexpensive. We use our camper all the time. I live in central Mississippi. Hope this helps Eddie





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: camper weight sticker, payload, camper size, popup a/c, shortbed models

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