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TAG AXLE MOD REJECTED BY TCM


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#1 OFFLINE   PACK4TAG

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 05:58 PM

This is the news for my NATCOA friends who encouraged me to submit my tag mod to TCM.

Roy,
 
Thank you for submitting the tag axle mod.  
 
Gordon and I have had an ongoing vigorous debate about your tag axle, but have ultimately decided that we cannot showcase this specific mod in Truck Camper Magazine.
 
While the tag axle may improve handling and compensate for the GVWR and payload limitations of your specific truck and camper, it does not legally raise either number.  
 
Showing the tag axle also encourages matching rigs that exceed payload limitations, a position we have opposed for nine plus years.  As a policy, we also never promote an aftermarket suspension enhancement as a solution for being over GVWR and payload.
 
It is our hope that you submit other mods to our contest.  This mod just happens to be in opposition to an important position of the magazine.
 
Thank you, Roy. 
 
 
Angela White, Editor
Truck Camper Magazine
 


#2 OFFLINE   Bedlam

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 07:09 PM

Somebody needs to pound it into their heads that GVWR is a warranty rating and not a legal one. I can register my F250 for 20K lbs per axle in my state for a 40K lb GVWR and be legal.


2012 Interstate Car Carrier ICC10220TA3, 20'x8.5', 8" I-beam frame, dual 5200 lb 4" drop torsion axles, Diamond plate, Towmax 225/75R15 LRE tires on galvanized rims, Harbor Freight 10k lb equalizing hitch, Camping World vent cover, LED lighting, 3' RV door, front and rear door interior light switches, interior plywood walls and floor, 70' of Harbor Freight E-track rail with recessed corner 5k lb D-rings, Dual 42 gal fresh water tanks with Harbor Freight transfer pump, portable dual Harbor Freight 45w solar arrays, 100 lbs LPG in four bottles, PowerArmor Max Solar 5-battery box, Deka 24HR3000 sealed batteries

 

2015 Ram 5500 HD 4wd Tradesman 60" CA, Crew cab with 173.4" wheelbase, 19,000 lb GVWR with 26,000 lb GCWR, Cummins I6 6.7 liter diesel with chassis cab tune 325 hp @ 2800 rpm and 750 ft-lb @ 1700 rpm, Aisin AS69RC 6-speed automatic, Borg Warner 44-47 manual transfer case, 14.5k lb Dana S14-111L limited slip and 7250 lb Magna Steyr 275mm with 4.44 ratios, Palfinger Badger low sill flat bed, Dual DeeZee 36x18x18 under bed boxes, Quad DeeZee 48x18x18 above bed boxes, Curt Double Lock 30K lb gooseneck, Dual 3/4" horse stall mats, SuperHitch Magnum 30K dual receiver with 42" SuperTruss, Upper StableLoads, Short range FastGun turnbuckles, 10 Deka 24HR3000 sealed batteries

 

2018 Host Mammoth 11.5, Polarized dual pane windows, Powered and lit awning, 6-stair Revolution GlowSteps, Swing out Rieco-Titan jacks, Fantastic Fan in cab over, Aero-Flo vent covers, 3x160w Zamp Solar with 30A controller, External 24" TV with DVD, Cargo slide tray, dual 6-volt batteries, 2.5KW LPG Onan, External LPG connection, 2-way water heater, Therford 3-burner cook top, Convection/Microwave, 8 cu ft 2-way Norcold Fridge, Loveseat with foot rest, U-shaped dinette, 1000W PSW Zamp inverter, King Jack amplified OTA antenna, 40" Samsung UN40J5200 smart TV in living room, Electric heater fireplace, Accordion bedroom door, Full wall passenger-side cab over wardrobe, 32" Samsung UN32J5205 smart TV in Bedroom

 
 
 
 

#3 OFFLINE   Oliver

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 07:34 PM

Unfortunately, that is probably the correct response from their perspective. Showing the modification in their magazine might be construed as an endorsement. If some guy tries to duplicate it, does an inadequate job of engineering and/or building it, and that results in injury to someone, they could very well be in line for a liability suit. It's a shame that it could work that way, especially since it is such an excellent piece of work, but I fear that is the reality. Gordon and Angela were obviously impressed with it, or there wouldn't have been a debate at all. Their not publishing it in no way diminishes the project, or even their attitude toward it.

#4 OFFLINE   RichConley

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 05:02 AM

Had TCM failed to incorporate a disclaimer policy?

I haven't read their page in a while, but one would think that a disclaimer policy would allow them to look at everything.

They could have run that story with a disclaimer.

But it would have seemed odd to disclaim just one article.

Perhaps TCM should reconsider their policy when it comes to accepting articles from the public.



#5 OFFLINE   ernge

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 05:05 AM

Good opposing comments Oliver and Bedlam.  My view is TCM goes beyond reason on weight issues.  Being the self proclaimed weight police certainly is not what you want to be known as.  Even if a TC appears to be out of the norm, they disapprove it.  A good disclaimer is all one needs to cover ones ...........   It is  interesting to see out of the box units individuals are making.  Maybe this will drive the industry forward.  I have seen a tag axle on a TC many years ago.  Didn't a TC  manufacturer make this at one time?



#6 OFFLINE   Bedlam

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 06:17 AM

Tag axles have been incorporated into the rear of Jeep and other TC's in the past. I don't know if scrub or uneven ground were issues for these designs. Flattop2 is using the tow receiver as an extension of the vehicle frame for his design.

 

survivor9_cj5_camper_left_front.jpg

 

44068large%2Bjeep_cj5_camper%2Bfront_rig


2012 Interstate Car Carrier ICC10220TA3, 20'x8.5', 8" I-beam frame, dual 5200 lb 4" drop torsion axles, Diamond plate, Towmax 225/75R15 LRE tires on galvanized rims, Harbor Freight 10k lb equalizing hitch, Camping World vent cover, LED lighting, 3' RV door, front and rear door interior light switches, interior plywood walls and floor, 70' of Harbor Freight E-track rail with recessed corner 5k lb D-rings, Dual 42 gal fresh water tanks with Harbor Freight transfer pump, portable dual Harbor Freight 45w solar arrays, 100 lbs LPG in four bottles, PowerArmor Max Solar 5-battery box, Deka 24HR3000 sealed batteries

 

2015 Ram 5500 HD 4wd Tradesman 60" CA, Crew cab with 173.4" wheelbase, 19,000 lb GVWR with 26,000 lb GCWR, Cummins I6 6.7 liter diesel with chassis cab tune 325 hp @ 2800 rpm and 750 ft-lb @ 1700 rpm, Aisin AS69RC 6-speed automatic, Borg Warner 44-47 manual transfer case, 14.5k lb Dana S14-111L limited slip and 7250 lb Magna Steyr 275mm with 4.44 ratios, Palfinger Badger low sill flat bed, Dual DeeZee 36x18x18 under bed boxes, Quad DeeZee 48x18x18 above bed boxes, Curt Double Lock 30K lb gooseneck, Dual 3/4" horse stall mats, SuperHitch Magnum 30K dual receiver with 42" SuperTruss, Upper StableLoads, Short range FastGun turnbuckles, 10 Deka 24HR3000 sealed batteries

 

2018 Host Mammoth 11.5, Polarized dual pane windows, Powered and lit awning, 6-stair Revolution GlowSteps, Swing out Rieco-Titan jacks, Fantastic Fan in cab over, Aero-Flo vent covers, 3x160w Zamp Solar with 30A controller, External 24" TV with DVD, Cargo slide tray, dual 6-volt batteries, 2.5KW LPG Onan, External LPG connection, 2-way water heater, Therford 3-burner cook top, Convection/Microwave, 8 cu ft 2-way Norcold Fridge, Loveseat with foot rest, U-shaped dinette, 1000W PSW Zamp inverter, King Jack amplified OTA antenna, 40" Samsung UN40J5200 smart TV in living room, Electric heater fireplace, Accordion bedroom door, Full wall passenger-side cab over wardrobe, 32" Samsung UN32J5205 smart TV in Bedroom

 
 
 
 

#7 OFFLINE   Bedlam

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 06:35 AM

Coach Masters has a similar product called Haulmore: https://www.youtube....h?v=KuaLVkMRz_E

 

More truck tag axles:

 

DSC01368.jpg

 

DSC01372.jpg

 

DSC01858.jpg

 

More examples of TC's with tags:

 

e02f25344d7e4c3e644455246780278c.jpg

 

overview.jpg

 

DSC00015.jpg


2012 Interstate Car Carrier ICC10220TA3, 20'x8.5', 8" I-beam frame, dual 5200 lb 4" drop torsion axles, Diamond plate, Towmax 225/75R15 LRE tires on galvanized rims, Harbor Freight 10k lb equalizing hitch, Camping World vent cover, LED lighting, 3' RV door, front and rear door interior light switches, interior plywood walls and floor, 70' of Harbor Freight E-track rail with recessed corner 5k lb D-rings, Dual 42 gal fresh water tanks with Harbor Freight transfer pump, portable dual Harbor Freight 45w solar arrays, 100 lbs LPG in four bottles, PowerArmor Max Solar 5-battery box, Deka 24HR3000 sealed batteries

 

2015 Ram 5500 HD 4wd Tradesman 60" CA, Crew cab with 173.4" wheelbase, 19,000 lb GVWR with 26,000 lb GCWR, Cummins I6 6.7 liter diesel with chassis cab tune 325 hp @ 2800 rpm and 750 ft-lb @ 1700 rpm, Aisin AS69RC 6-speed automatic, Borg Warner 44-47 manual transfer case, 14.5k lb Dana S14-111L limited slip and 7250 lb Magna Steyr 275mm with 4.44 ratios, Palfinger Badger low sill flat bed, Dual DeeZee 36x18x18 under bed boxes, Quad DeeZee 48x18x18 above bed boxes, Curt Double Lock 30K lb gooseneck, Dual 3/4" horse stall mats, SuperHitch Magnum 30K dual receiver with 42" SuperTruss, Upper StableLoads, Short range FastGun turnbuckles, 10 Deka 24HR3000 sealed batteries

 

2018 Host Mammoth 11.5, Polarized dual pane windows, Powered and lit awning, 6-stair Revolution GlowSteps, Swing out Rieco-Titan jacks, Fantastic Fan in cab over, Aero-Flo vent covers, 3x160w Zamp Solar with 30A controller, External 24" TV with DVD, Cargo slide tray, dual 6-volt batteries, 2.5KW LPG Onan, External LPG connection, 2-way water heater, Therford 3-burner cook top, Convection/Microwave, 8 cu ft 2-way Norcold Fridge, Loveseat with foot rest, U-shaped dinette, 1000W PSW Zamp inverter, King Jack amplified OTA antenna, 40" Samsung UN40J5200 smart TV in living room, Electric heater fireplace, Accordion bedroom door, Full wall passenger-side cab over wardrobe, 32" Samsung UN32J5205 smart TV in Bedroom

 
 
 
 

#8 OFFLINE   PACK4TAG

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 07:43 AM

Born Free built the tag axle pickup camper.The tag was part of the camper,not the truck.

My design is an extension of the truck frame,the receiver and both side frames.

It acts the same as a WDH taking weight from rear axle and adding about 30% to the front.

See ya in Glacier.

 

The Tag Team

R & G



#9 OFFLINE   Oliver

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 12:39 PM

How did the Born Free compensate for the side thrust on a sharp turn? With what looks like about 6' between the two rear axles, it seems like it would try to act like a fifth wheel if you went around a corner.

#10 OFFLINE   PACK4TAG

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 01:00 PM

My 2015 Ford is a 142" WB plus 58" to the Tag Axle.Total 200" WB

The current setup has only 880# on the Tag.

Yes I do feel a slight resistance on a real sharp turn with tire scuffing.

But my fifth wheel RVs did worse because of much more weight.

There are a lot of tag axles out there scuffing

I took off the first set of tires because of 13 years old and 22000 miles.

 

Roy

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#11 OFFLINE   Oliver

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 05:07 PM

If you only have 440# on a tire on the tag, it's probably not a big deal. The Born Free looks to have another 6' or so hanging out past the tag axle, so there is probably a good bit more weight there than you are seeing on your rig. Must be some attachment method in the back that isn't clear in the pic?

#12 OFFLINE   PACK4TAG

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 05:49 PM

Bolts to the OEM receiver cross frame ,and into the 

receiver.So,attached to the truck at three points.

The step box holds 58# of tools.



#13 OFFLINE   Dan Quinn

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 07:58 PM

Feel free to post on our Facebook page
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#14 OFFLINE   Bedlam

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 08:03 PM

NATCOA Facebook links:

 

https://www.facebook...42362195829479/

 

https://www.facebook...67940329921094/


2012 Interstate Car Carrier ICC10220TA3, 20'x8.5', 8" I-beam frame, dual 5200 lb 4" drop torsion axles, Diamond plate, Towmax 225/75R15 LRE tires on galvanized rims, Harbor Freight 10k lb equalizing hitch, Camping World vent cover, LED lighting, 3' RV door, front and rear door interior light switches, interior plywood walls and floor, 70' of Harbor Freight E-track rail with recessed corner 5k lb D-rings, Dual 42 gal fresh water tanks with Harbor Freight transfer pump, portable dual Harbor Freight 45w solar arrays, 100 lbs LPG in four bottles, PowerArmor Max Solar 5-battery box, Deka 24HR3000 sealed batteries

 

2015 Ram 5500 HD 4wd Tradesman 60" CA, Crew cab with 173.4" wheelbase, 19,000 lb GVWR with 26,000 lb GCWR, Cummins I6 6.7 liter diesel with chassis cab tune 325 hp @ 2800 rpm and 750 ft-lb @ 1700 rpm, Aisin AS69RC 6-speed automatic, Borg Warner 44-47 manual transfer case, 14.5k lb Dana S14-111L limited slip and 7250 lb Magna Steyr 275mm with 4.44 ratios, Palfinger Badger low sill flat bed, Dual DeeZee 36x18x18 under bed boxes, Quad DeeZee 48x18x18 above bed boxes, Curt Double Lock 30K lb gooseneck, Dual 3/4" horse stall mats, SuperHitch Magnum 30K dual receiver with 42" SuperTruss, Upper StableLoads, Short range FastGun turnbuckles, 10 Deka 24HR3000 sealed batteries

 

2018 Host Mammoth 11.5, Polarized dual pane windows, Powered and lit awning, 6-stair Revolution GlowSteps, Swing out Rieco-Titan jacks, Fantastic Fan in cab over, Aero-Flo vent covers, 3x160w Zamp Solar with 30A controller, External 24" TV with DVD, Cargo slide tray, dual 6-volt batteries, 2.5KW LPG Onan, External LPG connection, 2-way water heater, Therford 3-burner cook top, Convection/Microwave, 8 cu ft 2-way Norcold Fridge, Loveseat with foot rest, U-shaped dinette, 1000W PSW Zamp inverter, King Jack amplified OTA antenna, 40" Samsung UN40J5200 smart TV in living room, Electric heater fireplace, Accordion bedroom door, Full wall passenger-side cab over wardrobe, 32" Samsung UN32J5205 smart TV in Bedroom

 
 
 
 

#15 OFFLINE   RedneckExpress

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Posted 19 March 2016 - 02:38 PM

The born free tag had springs, which allowed the wheels to turn somewhat for corners and what not, similar to the air bag tag axle that was listed in one of the earlier posts.  


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#16 OFFLINE   Oliver

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Posted 19 March 2016 - 05:09 PM

Ok, that makes sense. Funny we don't see that approach used today.

#17 OFFLINE   Tee

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Posted 03 July 2018 - 09:14 AM

 

 

More truck tag axles:

 

DSC01368.jpg

 

DSC01372.jpg

 

DSC01858.jpg

 

More examples of TC's with tags:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is this setup a forum members?  Anyone know where I could get more information about it?


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#18 OFFLINE   Electrojake

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Posted 03 July 2018 - 03:35 PM

Absolutely fascinating thread!
Thank you PACK4TAG for starting it.
& Bedlam and others thanks for the great pics & links.  :fing32:
 
Closing thought, IMHO...
TCM is looking for little handy mods. A shoe cabinet under a step, a dry towel rack for a wet-bath, a better RV mouse trap, etc...
Your Tag-Axle mod is fantastic but would certainly require a higher level of engineering & fabrication than lets say... a spice rack.
I'd say you have the right product but the wrong launch pad.
 
Unrelated gripe:
I do small fabrications and such as I have weekend access to my Son's shop.
The price of domestic steel and aluminum seems to be doubling on a monthly basis.
<bang head> Tariffs = trade wars = crush the little guy (as usual).
 Buy what ever raw materials you need for projects now before steel passes copper, then titanium!
 
Just saying... The price of steel has gone nuts!
-Ej-

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#19 OFFLINE   KnightEagle

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Posted 07 July 2018 - 05:55 AM

love it those of us that carry the big boy TC's could use them


  :sign0007: I got it fixed!

 

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#20 OFFLINE   PACK4TAG

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 07:49 PM

The 2017 vehicle,which is a lot different than this old version is currently Patent Pending.

Guess I took TCM rejection as a good thing.A challenge to do it right.

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