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Scottish Independence


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#1 OFFLINE   andyo

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 02:57 PM

It has been a while since I posted here and one of my last posts was about the referendum being held to determine if Scotland should become an independent country or remain part of the UK. Time has passed and there are now only 252 days for our destiny to be decided. Exciting and worrying times ahead with a lot of thought as to how the economy for example would be affected if we were to become independent. Would be interesting to know your thoughts.



#2 OFFLINE   the tc life

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 05:28 PM

first off...welcome back andyo....been a while.

 

as far as to my thoughts about the issue...I cant answer that.  I am an American who is not familiar enough to have a decision on that country. heck...ive never even been there. ive been to England but that's the only part of the "uk".

 

 no matter what becomes of it...I still wish to visit....and talk truck campers with folks like you of course with a good pint.


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#3 OFFLINE   Bedlam

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 05:45 PM

I can only hope that things go smoothly like when Czechoslovakia split into two countries instead the mess in Yugoslavia. Do you think that Scottland's economy is strong enough to support the services expected by its citizens currently?

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#4 OFFLINE   ATPringles

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 06:29 PM

Like others, I can't say anything about that situation. I do remember that shortly after I moved to Sault Ste. Marie, MI, Quebec was voting on whether to leave Canada. I watched a local Canadian station as they reported the results as they came in. I knew my Canadian friends were on pins and needles about the outcome. It was all peaceful, but actions had been taken... things that I sure wouldn't have thought of. One action was that Canadian armed forces had all been pulled out of Quebec, just in case it became a sovereign nation. I hope it works out for the best.

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#5 OFFLINE   KnightEagle

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 10:20 AM

As being of Scotch/Irsh back ground would be great to see the choke released. But there be very hard times ahead.


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#6 OFFLINE   hodag

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 10:41 AM

Remember, If it is not Scottish it is crap.



#7 OFFLINE   andyo

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 12:04 PM

Remember, If it is not Scottish it is crap.

Hahaha. We do have a - sometimes misguided - high opinion of ourselves.

 

The big worry to me and most others is the economy. The Nationalists have produced a white paper on what would happen if we became independent but it raises more questions than it answers. First they wanted us to adopt the Euro as currency until the eurozone imploded. Then they said we would keep the pound. 'Oh is that right?' said the Bank of England. Where we go next nobody knows. The Nationalists describe the new Scotland as a kind of utopia in the hope that they grab the votes of those who are easily impressed. Dig a little deeper though and there isn't much meat on the bones of their policies.

 

My heart tells me to vote for independence but my head is overruling it at the moment.

 

Oh and you would all be welcome to come over for a pint

 

Andy



#8 OFFLINE   Shellback

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 12:50 PM

I'm a first generation American, My mother was from Glasgow, and My father was from Ireland. One of his ancestors retired from the English navy to the seacoast of Ireland when the whole country was English. Unfortunately they have long passed or it would be curious to ask my mother what she would think of the separation. She left Scotland in 1925 at 15 y/o. So her opinions could be quite different than today's generations. The US went with "Hope and Change", many are finding that it was all politicians BS. I pray the Scots make the right decision.

#9 OFFLINE   ernge

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 01:38 PM

It would be scary to me.  The cost for a small country to have a big enough military is staggering.  Remember France, Belgium, Poland, etc.   The US wants to cut back on NATO funding and may just have to.  Russia is flexing its muscle across the world.  Also, a standalone country needs an abundant supply of most all natural resources.   But all that said, freedom trumps everything.  When people pull together for a goal, anything is possible.  Good luck.

On a personal note, believe surname is from Scotland.  Can’t prove 100% but family folklore and DNA testing appears to form that conclusion.  Came to US prior to 1730 probably as indentured servants in Maryland and then settled in North Carolina, South Carolina, Mississippi and Louisiana.  A great many southerners are from Scotland directly and indirectly from Ireland (the Scot/Irish).



#10 OFFLINE   andyo

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 02:59 PM

It would be scary to me.  The cost for a small country to have a big enough military is staggering.  Remember France, Belgium, Poland, etc.   The US wants to cut back on NATO funding and may just have to.  Russia is flexing its muscle across the world.  Also, a standalone country needs an abundant supply of most all natural resources.   But all that said, freedom trumps everything.  When people pull together for a goal, anything is possible.  Good luck.

On a personal note, believe surname is from Scotland.  Can’t prove 100% but family folklore and DNA testing appears to form that conclusion.  Came to US prior to 1730 probably as indentured servants in Maryland and then settled in North Carolina, South Carolina, Mississippi and Louisiana.  A great many southerners are from Scotland directly and indirectly from Ireland (the Scot/Irish).

Well the Scottish National Party want to make Scotland 'nuclear free' so that would mean closing the submarine base  at Faslane. Their vision is that Scotland would then not be so much of a target and that we should only have a smaller defence force. They are being naive I think as, if England, a nuclear nation, is targetted, then we would be destroyed as well with no retaliatory measures. Also there are a lot of civilian jobs that would be lost if the base is closed.

What is your surname ernge?

 

I'm a first generation American, My mother was from Glasgow, and My father was from Ireland. One of his ancestors retired from the English navy to the seacoast of Ireland when the whole country was English. Unfortunately they have long passed or it would be curious to ask my mother what she would think of the separation. She left Scotland in 1925 at 15 y/o. So her opinions could be quite different than today's generations. The US went with "Hope and Change", many are finding that it was all politicians BS. I pray the Scots make the right decision.

So do I Shellback



#11 OFFLINE   Wendy

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 07:59 AM

Like others, I can't say anything about that situation. I do remember that shortly after I moved to Sault Ste. Marie, MI, Quebec was voting on whether to leave Canada. I watched a local Canadian station as they reported the results as they came in. I knew my Canadian friends were on pins and needles about the outcome. It was all peaceful, but actions had been taken... things that I sure wouldn't have thought of. One action was that Canadian armed forces had all been pulled out of Quebec, just in case it became a sovereign nation. I hope it works out for the best.

Pringles

Hey Pringles; just a note that your information is not quite correct.  I have just retired after serving 35 years with the Canadian Armed Forces, and have also spent 2 postings stationed in Quebec.  I am from BC, but my husband is from Quebec (also retired military).  Yes we were indeed all on tenterhooks during the 1995 referendum on whether or not Quebec should gain its independence, (this was the second such referendum, the first was in 1980), but the Canadian Armed Forces were not pulled out of Quebec at any time.  There are several large bases in Quebec, with thousands of people posted there.  Trying to pull out the personnel (and what would be done with all their families who also live there?) would be a complicated and logistical nightmare.  But I know that my family and friends were all relieved that the vote was for Quebec to stay a part of Canada.  I know that my Canada includes Quebec!


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#12 OFFLINE   ATPringles

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 02:48 PM

Wow, I'm sorry for spreading misinformation. It's been a while and I thought that was right. I remember Canadian friends talking about the millitary apparently being ready to leave rather than leaving. I remember watching the news that night and being amazed that the country right across the river, a couple of miles away, was actually contemplating having a part of the country pull out of the group.

#13 OFFLINE   Oliver

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 07:21 PM

This independence thing is a tough call. I'm not even aware of the real issues involved, but it seems to me the question should be decided by the head, not the heart. There is strength in the UK that will be to some degree compromised, on both sides, by Scottish independence. In times like these, it may be better to deal with the devil you know rather than the devil you don't. Just my humble take on it. I have a connection to the clan Macleod back about 15 generations, so I certainly wish you well, whatever you decide.

#14 OFFLINE   andyo

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 02:17 PM

Update for anyone interested. Less than 100 days to go and the gap between the 'Yes to Independence' and 'No' camps is narrowing. The 'No' are still leading the polls by a fair margin, but there are still a lot of undecided folk out there. My problem is that the Independence party can't explain where they are going to get the money to finance the utopian society they say we are going to have. Much is based on the oil we have in the North Sea, but that seems to have a limited lifespan and won't last forever. Interesting times ahead, for me at least

#15 OFFLINE   KnightEagle

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 07:06 PM

If the independence movement wins it will be a tough road ahead. Cost of an army to defend your self, A new cost of running a government, And the cost of social care, and other costs. to the non Independence movement let GB pick up most of the cost. True be free for once in 600 years or so from all out siders. But your still free now so to speak.


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#16 OFFLINE   the tc life

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 07:25 PM

i have been interested in seeing how it unfolds. there is very limited info on it here the states though. its a ...huge is not a big enough word but...huge issue. im sure there are pros and cons on both sides. i dont live there nor have i had the pleasure to visit...yet. i do wish you all the very best and hope it all turns out good for you. its hard for me to imagine going through that. 


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#17 OFFLINE   RichConley

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 05:08 AM

Without knowing anything about it - I would guess that there are big oil fields or some other valuable natural resource included in the fantasy of independence.

Nobody is independent.  We're all dependent on one another in some way or other.

Those who are most willing to cooperate with each other, to respect each other, will recognize the most reward.



#18 OFFLINE   PigPen

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 08:01 PM

Cant see much advantage in independance, i presume both countries will still be part of the EU.

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#19 OFFLINE   andyo

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 12:33 PM

Well to answer a few points, yes there are oil fields in the North Sea but analysts are predicting that they have a limited lifespan and the problem is that much of the pro independence Scottish National Party's (SNP) budget is dependent on this revenue. What happens if it runs out sooner rather than later. The SNP tells us we will automatically be a member of the European Union despite EU officials saying we will have to apply. More worryingly the UK government says we won't be able to use the British pound as our currency. I dont want to adopt the euro with its problems. Worrying times ahead, just hope the polls prove correct and folk vote with their heads and not their hearts.



#20 OFFLINE   RichConley

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 07:00 PM

So if one is a government employee - and the government changes - does one loose their job/pension?

It seems like a lot of loose ends and torn promises.






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