Jump to content

 
 

Announcements

Lots of new items for sale in our store. Click here

Photo

GVWR - What does it really mean?


61 replies to this topic

#41 OFFLINE   farmer

farmer

    Past President

  • NATCOA Members
  • 1758 posts
  • Local time: 08:32 PM
  • State/Province or Region:BC
  • Country:Canada
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Surrey, BC, Canada, North America, Earth
  • Camper Brand:2003 Bigfoot 30C10.11SL
  • Truck Make & Model:Class 5 2005 Ford F-550 365 cu.in. Powerstroke Diesel4x4 Lariat crewcab 10' flatdeck
  • Name (Public):Rick and Susanne

Posted 10 April 2013 - 06:01 AM

Thats interesting.

On a side note I was told it doesn't matter how many springs or leafs you had, it's the thickness and the stiffness of the spring that determines the load capacity and ride.
My old 67 Willys jeep has 13 leafs per wheel, it rides okay for a short wheelbase.

#42 OFFLINE   KnightEagle

KnightEagle

    KnightEagle

  • NATCOA Members
  • 1958 posts
  • Local time: 09:32 PM
  • State/Province or Region:Tx
  • Country:USA
  • Gender:Male
  • Camper Brand:2017 Adventure Alp 116DS
  • Truck Make & Model:2012 Ram 3500HD DRW
  • Name (Public):KnightEagle

Posted 10 April 2013 - 12:23 PM

Dubob a the track as we called it none of the Ford trucks survived the entire millage without a failure. Most test's were a hole truck test. Or aimed a a certain part. Like how you think a fiberglass driveshaft would wholed up? if you quessed it wouldnt you are right it lasted 1500 miles. Then they crushed the truck. Most front ends are rated less than 4800 reason behind that are legal for the makers for the fail point is much higher. also their are more weak points that come into play. wheel bearings, bracks, knuckle joints, drag links, u-joints, on and on. Wile the rear axle weak points are bearings and lug nuts, axle shafts. Over all tires are the same. Most are rated 3050 each single for e rating thats for srw, as for drw they are 2800. going to 19.5 tires may up the load for each tire they have a stronger side wall than a 17 inch tire. So with all that said If one has a off the show room floor truck lets say a crew cab 3500 drw with no upgrades 2 x 4 that is. with a 4k TC on it you be down in the rear and sitting heavy on the overloads. Now are you over weight say no but right at the edge so to speak. Ride right blocks would help engage the overloads sooner and help raise the rear a little. air bags for lift only does nothing to raise your weight carring. the factory springs and overloads are set at the limits on the door decale can add extra lefs and added overload springs can help only if the axle is listed on the next heaver truck. As for sway control adding a sway bar helps in that department. It comes down to this use your weight that are given for your truck for gross, front and rear axle. As a quide when buying a new camper . In my case have a one ton drw single cab, air bags, sway bar, ride rite springs with a 4k camper with our gear i say we can still have a 600-800 lb tonge weight when towing. Even then their are ways to load a trailer so that 40-45% of the load is on the back half and 55-60% on the front a double axle or triple be best.


  :sign0007: I got it fixed!

 

2012 Ram 3500HD DRW. RideRite 5000 Air Bags. Hellwig sway Bar rear. Curt hitch 17000/2550. Engine: 6.7-Liter I6 Cummins® Turbo Diesel Engine Transmission: 6-Speed Automatic 68RFE. 2017 Adventure Alp 116DS 5153+ lb. Reg Cab. Torklift Frame mounts. Ranch Hand Front Bumber, Duel hitch and 4' extension . C.B channel 19 most times. Towing a 16 ft storage trailer with a jon boat inside.

 

ALP116DS2017
ALP116DS10.JPG

 


#43 OFFLINE   Fennemore

Fennemore

    Grand Potentate

  • Members
  • 84 posts
  • Local time: 08:32 PM
  • State/Province or Region:AZ
  • Country:USA
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Glendale AZ
  • Interests:Camping, hunting and rock crawling
  • Camper Brand:Fleetwood Elkhorn 9T
  • Truck Make & Model:2003 Dodge Quad Cab 6 speed Long Bed SRW Cummins 3500

Posted 10 April 2013 - 12:44 PM

Most automotive weight ratings are based on the ability for a worn part needing replacement to sustain the maximum payload until that part can be replaced, this is often well in excess of 1000 miles. As KnightEagle has first hand experience the vehicles are tested to death (literally) to compare with the engineering. So your dually front end may very well hold 8000# given the proper tires/wheels but as soon as your tie rod begins to wear something will fail quickly before you can replace it. Transversely your front end when loaded to 5000# can continue to operate for many miles with components in need of replacement. These are obviously random examples and not exact figures.

 

This is proven time and again by overloading vehicles while adhering to a strict inspection and repair processes. Oil field service trucks and racing applications come to mind.


-Matt Fennemore -
2003 Dodge Ram 3500, quad cab, longbed, 4x4 SRW, cummins, 6 speed
2002 Fleetwood Elkhorn 9T
1979 Chevy K5 turned rock crawler

IMG00530-20130210-1145+-+Copy.jpg


#44 OFFLINE   Rick1985

Rick1985

    Grand Potentate

  • NATCOA Members
  • 538 posts
  • Local time: 10:32 PM
  • State/Province or Region:NJ
  • Country:USA
  • Gender:Male
  • Camper Brand:Fleetwood
  • Truck Make & Model:Dodge Ram 3500

Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:28 PM

This topic has been beaten to death over and over. It boils down to a very simple statement. Can you overload your truck and have it survive?  Maybe. Should you? NO.

Every single person that posts on here will have some reasonable explanation as to how and why they can overload their truck safely. I have seen as many excuses (explainations) as I have posts.

It all boils down to this, The ratings are put there for a reason. I can assure you that the manufacturers will put the highesd rating they can possibly get away with because bigger ratings sells trucks. The fudge factor that was built into the rating has evaporated in the last ten years as truck manufacturers try to up the ante by advertising heavier weight carrying capacities. There is little or no fudge factor there.

 

Rick



#45 OFFLINE   gsair

gsair

    Grand Potentate

  • Members
  • 106 posts
  • Local time: 08:32 PM
  • State/Province or Region:az
  • Country:usa
  • Gender:Male
  • Camper Brand:2001 arctic fox 990
  • Truck Make & Model:2006 chevy cc dually flatbed 4wd duramax
  • Name (Public):Gregg

Posted 10 April 2013 - 02:33 PM

I would imagine that this topic will continue to be, and should be, beaten to death. Every time someone gets a new toy, { truck camper }, they have questions and concerns. Then they go to a forum to discuss and get other peoples views. I personally think there is a fudge factor there, but I do not know that. I would agree that the highest ratings are on them that can be put on them for some reason or another.



#46 OFFLINE   Rusty Bridges

Rusty Bridges

    Grand Potentate

  • Members
  • 196 posts
  • Local time: 10:32 PM
  • State/Province or Region:AL
  • Country:USA
  • Gender:Male
  • Camper Brand:Arctic Fox
  • Truck Make & Model:Dodge 3500
  • Name (Public):Rusty Bridges

Posted 11 April 2013 - 06:25 AM

hey rusty gear ratios don't really play into gvwr all that much. it is more for fuel ecom and how well it pulls.

 

 I have to disagree.  When I was truck shopping there was a differnce in the published GVWR and GCWR between identical trucks with different ratios. I believe the reason is pressures put on the drive line. The lower gears reduce the strain on the drive line. Overloading a higher gear overloads the drive train leading to earlier failure. The drive line is more suceptable to damage than most think, I have had several failures in the driveline of my truck and no failures elsewhere. As for fuel economy, I have seen little difference between 3.70 and 4.10 gears when loaded. The engine works harder pulling a load with the higher gear negating the advantage of the higher ratio.



#47 OFFLINE   sooty1234

sooty1234

    Grand Potentate

  • NATCOA Members
  • 888 posts
  • Local time: 07:32 PM
  • State/Province or Region:Oregon
  • Country:United States
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Carus, Oregon
  • Camper Brand:Retro 177se
  • Truck Make & Model:Colorado
  • Name (Public):Jim

Posted 11 April 2013 - 07:08 AM

It is interesting how this topic evolves from time to time. I seems there is always some new information that comes forth. It has been awhile since I looked up the load ratings on the Timken bearings used in my 2500HD's axle. These numbers are approximate but in the range of reality and are all available on line. Outer axle bearing per each : Static over 20000 lbs. Dynamic over 80000 lbs. Seems that the bearings are very much over rated for the application. I suppose the engineers looked at shock load as well when specing out these bearings. Just another item to chew on.

Jim

"It ain't what a man knows that gets him in trouble. It's what he thinks he knows, but just ain't so!" Will Rogers.

#48 OFFLINE   dubob

dubob

    Grand Potentate

  • Members
  • 146 posts
  • Local time: 09:32 PM
  • State/Province or Region:UT
  • Country:USA
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Hunting, Fishing, Skeet shooting
  • Camper Brand:2011 Lance 992
  • Truck Make & Model:2010 Chevy 2500HD Silverado, 6.0L gas
  • Name (Public):Bob

Posted 11 April 2013 - 07:42 AM

It is interesting how this topic evolves from time to time. I seems there is always some new information that comes forth. It has been awhile since I looked up the load ratings on the Timken bearings used in my 2500HD's axle. These numbers are approximate but in the range of reality and are all available on line. Outer axle bearing per each : Static over 20000 lbs. Dynamic over 80000 lbs. Seems that the bearings are very much over rated for the application. I suppose the engineers looked at shock load as well when specing out these bearings. Just another item to chew on.

Jim

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I would think that if you know the weight rating for the complete axle (my 3500HD rear axle is rated at 10, 912 lbs), then the weight rating of any of the components in that axle such as bearings, gears, shafts, etc. will be equal to or higher than the axle rating and therefore don't really matter.  Yes?  No?  Maybe?


:usa:
Bob Hicks, from Utah
I’m 76 years young and going as hard as I can for as long as I can.
“Free men don't ask permission to bear arms.” ― Glen Aldrich
“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter,
and those who matter don’t mind.” ― Dr. Seuss

2010 Chevy Silverado 2500HD, SRW, 6.0L gas/2011 Lance 992


#49 OFFLINE   dubob

dubob

    Grand Potentate

  • Members
  • 146 posts
  • Local time: 09:32 PM
  • State/Province or Region:UT
  • Country:USA
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Hunting, Fishing, Skeet shooting
  • Camper Brand:2011 Lance 992
  • Truck Make & Model:2010 Chevy 2500HD Silverado, 6.0L gas
  • Name (Public):Bob

Posted 11 April 2013 - 08:01 AM

 I have to disagree.  When I was truck shopping there was a differnce in the published GVWR and GCWR between identical trucks with different ratios. I believe the reason is pressures put on the drive line. The lower gears reduce the strain on the drive line. Overloading a higher gear overloads the drive train leading to earlier failure. The drive line is more suceptable to damage than most think, I have had several failures in the driveline of my truck and no failures elsewhere. As for fuel economy, I have seen little difference between 3.70 and 4.10 gears when loaded. The engine works harder pulling a load with the higher gear negating the advantage of the higher ratio.

Rusty,

 

I would respectfully disagree with PART of your assertion.  I did a quick check of both the Chevy and Ford websites for payload and towing specifications and found that the axle ration is NOT a factor contributing to GVWR (payload).  It IS a factor contributing to the GCWR (towing).  The 4.10 axle will always give you a higher towing weight capacity than a 3.73.  Just thought you should know.

 

:fing32: 


:usa:
Bob Hicks, from Utah
I’m 76 years young and going as hard as I can for as long as I can.
“Free men don't ask permission to bear arms.” ― Glen Aldrich
“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter,
and those who matter don’t mind.” ― Dr. Seuss

2010 Chevy Silverado 2500HD, SRW, 6.0L gas/2011 Lance 992


#50 OFFLINE   dubob

dubob

    Grand Potentate

  • Members
  • 146 posts
  • Local time: 09:32 PM
  • State/Province or Region:UT
  • Country:USA
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Hunting, Fishing, Skeet shooting
  • Camper Brand:2011 Lance 992
  • Truck Make & Model:2010 Chevy 2500HD Silverado, 6.0L gas
  • Name (Public):Bob

Posted 11 April 2013 - 01:59 PM

Okay, I got the truck weighed.  With the fuel tank full and the tailgate off, the front end of the truck came in at 4,680 lbs and the rear end of the truck came in at 3,520 lbs.  Add the two together and the total is 8,200 lbs.  However, I weighed the whole truck and that weight is 8,240 lbs.  Close enough!

 

So now, based on the factory ratings, I’ve got 180 lbs left to load on the front end, 4,680 lbs to load on the rear end, but only 3,160 lbs to load on the truck.  Somehow that doesn’t add up.

 

Now I know somebody mentioned earlier that the GVWR will not match up with the total of the two GAWR’s.  I wonder why that is the case.  Mathmatically it doesn’t make sense.  It doesn’t make sense that loading the rear axle to capacity will overload the truck by a large margin – in my case, bringing the rear axle weight up to 8,200 lbs will bring the total truck weight to 12,920 lbs which is 1,520 lbs over the GVWR of 11,400 lbs.  The truck companies sure don’t make it easy.


:usa:
Bob Hicks, from Utah
I’m 76 years young and going as hard as I can for as long as I can.
“Free men don't ask permission to bear arms.” ― Glen Aldrich
“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter,
and those who matter don’t mind.” ― Dr. Seuss

2010 Chevy Silverado 2500HD, SRW, 6.0L gas/2011 Lance 992


#51 OFFLINE   Rusty Bridges

Rusty Bridges

    Grand Potentate

  • Members
  • 196 posts
  • Local time: 10:32 PM
  • State/Province or Region:AL
  • Country:USA
  • Gender:Male
  • Camper Brand:Arctic Fox
  • Truck Make & Model:Dodge 3500
  • Name (Public):Rusty Bridges

Posted 11 April 2013 - 04:23 PM

Rusty,

 

I would respectfully disagree with PART of your assertion.  I did a quick check of both the Chevy and Ford websites for payload and towing specifications and found that the axle ration is NOT a factor contributing to GVWR (payload).  It IS a factor contributing to the GCWR (towing).  The 4.10 axle will always give you a higher towing weight capacity than a 3.73.  Just thought you should know.

 

:fing32: 

I have a Dodge.  ;)

It has been a few years And I really can't recall all the details, but I studied myself crosseyed when truck shopping. So you may be correct. At the moment I have no idea what GVWR or GCWR my truck is since my sticker was removed and  never replaced.

 

Russ



#52 OFFLINE   Rusty Bridges

Rusty Bridges

    Grand Potentate

  • Members
  • 196 posts
  • Local time: 10:32 PM
  • State/Province or Region:AL
  • Country:USA
  • Gender:Male
  • Camper Brand:Arctic Fox
  • Truck Make & Model:Dodge 3500
  • Name (Public):Rusty Bridges

Posted 11 April 2013 - 04:33 PM

Okay, I got the truck weighed.  With the fuel tank full and the tailgate off, the front end of the truck came in at 4,680 lbs and the rear end of the truck came in at 3,520 lbs.  Add the two together and the total is 8,200 lbs.  However, I weighed the whole truck and that weight is 8,240 lbs.  Close enough!

 

So now, based on the factory ratings, I’ve got 180 lbs left to load on the front end, 4,680 lbs to load on the rear end, but only 3,160 lbs to load on the truck.  Somehow that doesn’t add up.

 

Now I know somebody mentioned earlier that the GVWR will not match up with the total of the two GAWR’s.  I wonder why that is the case.  Mathmatically it doesn’t make sense.  It doesn’t make sense that loading the rear axle to capacity will overload the truck by a large margin – in my case, bringing the rear axle weight up to 8,200 lbs will bring the total truck weight to 12,920 lbs which is 1,520 lbs over the GVWR of 11,400 lbs.  The truck companies sure don’t make it easy.

:happy0028:  When you decide to quit worrying, you can start enjoying that new AF. Everyone here is in the same boat. You know you are on the edge, so Keep your truck well maintained, keep good tires and keep them well inflated, drive moderatly.

 

Have fun

Russ



#53 OFFLINE   gsair

gsair

    Grand Potentate

  • Members
  • 106 posts
  • Local time: 08:32 PM
  • State/Province or Region:az
  • Country:usa
  • Gender:Male
  • Camper Brand:2001 arctic fox 990
  • Truck Make & Model:2006 chevy cc dually flatbed 4wd duramax
  • Name (Public):Gregg

Posted 11 April 2013 - 05:58 PM

Dubob, did that weight include your bride and yourself? Thanks



#54 OFFLINE   wirenut

wirenut

    Grand Potentate

  • Members
  • 351 posts
  • Local time: 10:32 PM
  • State/Province or Region:VA
  • Country:US
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Swoope, VA
  • Interests:boating trains amateur radio
  • Camper Brand:Fleetwood
  • Truck Make & Model:'05 3500 chevy

Posted 12 April 2013 - 04:01 AM

There is always a discrepency between GVWR and the sum of the axles. This is to provide lee way in loading. If they matched you would have to load the truck perfectly, every single pound on the right axle, to ever use it's maximum GVWR. Also, just the motion of the truck transfer's weight around. When you brake you add weight from the rear to the front. When you accelerate you add from the front onto the rear.

Heck, even rearanging which seats your passengers are in could throw it off. Or using the plumging in the TC and moving water from the fresh tank to the gray tank.

In my experience you'll never be able to get anywhere near 6,000 pounds on your front axle. My '05 Chevy crew cab dually weighs in at 13,500 with camper, boat, family, water, etc. There is less than 4,500 on the front axle. I would love to move some up there but I can't. The only possibility would be a WDH for the boat but it only has 212 pounds of tongue weight and it would screw up the surge brakes.



#55 OFFLINE   dubob

dubob

    Grand Potentate

  • Members
  • 146 posts
  • Local time: 09:32 PM
  • State/Province or Region:UT
  • Country:USA
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Hunting, Fishing, Skeet shooting
  • Camper Brand:2011 Lance 992
  • Truck Make & Model:2010 Chevy 2500HD Silverado, 6.0L gas
  • Name (Public):Bob

Posted 12 April 2013 - 06:07 AM

Dubob, did that weight include your bride and yourself? Thanks

Yes, it did.


:usa:
Bob Hicks, from Utah
I’m 76 years young and going as hard as I can for as long as I can.
“Free men don't ask permission to bear arms.” ― Glen Aldrich
“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter,
and those who matter don’t mind.” ― Dr. Seuss

2010 Chevy Silverado 2500HD, SRW, 6.0L gas/2011 Lance 992


#56 OFFLINE   dubob

dubob

    Grand Potentate

  • Members
  • 146 posts
  • Local time: 09:32 PM
  • State/Province or Region:UT
  • Country:USA
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Hunting, Fishing, Skeet shooting
  • Camper Brand:2011 Lance 992
  • Truck Make & Model:2010 Chevy 2500HD Silverado, 6.0L gas
  • Name (Public):Bob

Posted 22 April 2013 - 05:24 PM

I finally made the trip to Bozeman to take possession of the camper.  We loaded the camper onto the truck last Friday AM and headed for the Flying J scales to find out the real numbers for the truck.  We had about one gallon of fuel short of a full load and my bride and I both on board.  The camper was dry except for the twin 20s full of propane and we didn’t have any of our gear on board except a couple of suitcases with three days worth of clothes.

 

I was more concerned with the axle weights than I was with the GVWR.  Some of you will smile and tell me to just keeping on trucking and enjoy.  Some of you will just shake your heads and think I’m crazy to put that load on this truck.  After posting some questions on these forums and getting some very friendly advice and warnings and then consulting with my local auto mechanic, I’m inclined to just smile and keep on trucking myself.

 

As stated earlier, my truck weighed in without the camper at 4,680 lbs on the front axle, 3,520 lbs on the rear axle, and a total truck weight of 8,240 lbs.  Now the truck has 4,820 lbs on the front axle, 7,420 lbs on the rear axle, and a total truck weight of 12,260 lbs.  So, I’ve exceeded the GVWR by 860 lbs and that number is going to grow a couple hundred more when I throw in some water, food, and hook up the boat.  But the axles are both under their factory ratings and considerably under their actual carrying capacity when looking at the ratings of the axles, springs, tires, and rims.  So yes, I’m comfortable with where I’m at right now and where I think I’ll be when I’m fully loaded for some fishing adventures I have planed this summer.

 

I did have a set of air bags installed on the rear axle for keeping the truck level front to back and to help with the sway while moving.  The truck leveled out with 30 lbs of air and the sway was almost non-existent on the highway.

 

This is going to be fun.


Edited by dubob, 26 April 2013 - 02:30 PM.

:usa:
Bob Hicks, from Utah
I’m 76 years young and going as hard as I can for as long as I can.
“Free men don't ask permission to bear arms.” ― Glen Aldrich
“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter,
and those who matter don’t mind.” ― Dr. Seuss

2010 Chevy Silverado 2500HD, SRW, 6.0L gas/2011 Lance 992


#57 OFFLINE   wirenut

wirenut

    Grand Potentate

  • Members
  • 351 posts
  • Local time: 10:32 PM
  • State/Province or Region:VA
  • Country:US
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Swoope, VA
  • Interests:boating trains amateur radio
  • Camper Brand:Fleetwood
  • Truck Make & Model:'05 3500 chevy

Posted 26 April 2013 - 11:35 AM

I'm glad to hear you got the new camper.

Check your post again. Your front axle weight is wrong.



#58 OFFLINE   dubob

dubob

    Grand Potentate

  • Members
  • 146 posts
  • Local time: 09:32 PM
  • State/Province or Region:UT
  • Country:USA
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Hunting, Fishing, Skeet shooting
  • Camper Brand:2011 Lance 992
  • Truck Make & Model:2010 Chevy 2500HD Silverado, 6.0L gas
  • Name (Public):Bob

Posted 26 April 2013 - 02:32 PM

Check your post again. Your front axle weight is wrong.

:sign0007: Good call; it is now correct. 


:usa:
Bob Hicks, from Utah
I’m 76 years young and going as hard as I can for as long as I can.
“Free men don't ask permission to bear arms.” ― Glen Aldrich
“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter,
and those who matter don’t mind.” ― Dr. Seuss

2010 Chevy Silverado 2500HD, SRW, 6.0L gas/2011 Lance 992


#59 OFFLINE   Whitey

Whitey

    Poster

  • INTCOA Members
  • 46 posts
  • Local time: 11:32 AM
  • State/Province or Region:Western Australia
  • Country:Australia
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Perth, Western Australia
  • Camper Brand:2013 Eagle Cap 1160
  • Truck Make & Model:2012 Ram Laramie 3500HO Crew diesel 4x4 longbed
  • Name (Public):Doug

Posted 05 May 2013 - 04:54 AM

Dubob, impossible to read your posts.

I am going to change to an F450 for my new Eagle Cap 1160, for safety!

#60 OFFLINE   Rusty Bridges

Rusty Bridges

    Grand Potentate

  • Members
  • 196 posts
  • Local time: 10:32 PM
  • State/Province or Region:AL
  • Country:USA
  • Gender:Male
  • Camper Brand:Arctic Fox
  • Truck Make & Model:Dodge 3500
  • Name (Public):Rusty Bridges

Posted 05 May 2013 - 11:26 AM

I thinkmany of us are right where you are, fortunately we know it and adjust or driving habits to fit the situation. Be safe and enjoy your new camper. BTW don't forget you can haul some of your gear in the boat. It doesn't lessen your Gross, but does lighten the load on the rear axle.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Sign In