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Another camper jack disaster


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#81 OFFLINE   btggraphix

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 08:36 AM

I've certainly read about various issues that people have had, that might be termed "failures".....from the jack dropping down when the camper was in the truck, to running away due to a neighbors cordless controls on the same freq., to hydraulic failures on the old styles, to corners ripping out due to rot, to people setting the camper down on wet/muddy ground etc. etc. My old 74 Aspen had bad front corners, and a jack ripped out of it - and I only barely managed to keep it from crashing down. If you dubbed all of those "failures".....and StabileLift is the only 'alternate system' it wouldn't surprise me to hear Monte stating that - probably most people that go to StableLift have reasons to convert (real or perceived) and they probably tell him that when buying. But compared to the 100's of thousands of times TC's have been taken on and off, it's not exactly like 150 failures is something earth shattering.
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#82 OFFLINE   Wellsdesigned

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 11:58 AM

So if most camper jacks are rated at about 2500 lbs, then shouldn't one jack support the weight of 1/2 of the 5000 lb camper? If the ground is unstable, and one jack sinks more than the other, the camper should not fall, its weight should be supported on the one jack on the opposite side. Or if the ground is so unstable, both jack will then sink in but one jack loosing its base should not result in a falling camper.

Something more is going on than one jack sinking into the ground therefore failure is then the fault of the ground.
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#83 OFFLINE   turbo

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 02:31 PM

would this HD Atwood help?

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  • lance 855 hd jack.jpg


#84 OFFLINE   PigPen

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 04:32 PM

The jacks on the Mexico accident were labled HD as well.

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#85 OFFLINE   Bellbuoy

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 02:04 AM

So, rather than failures, do you think the people that have these accidents are not following Happi-Jacs Golden Rules of Camper Handling?

"As with any truck camper jack, care should be taken when lowering jacks
on any ground, especially uneven ground. Care should be taken to keep
the camper level when loading and unloading. On uneven ground, the
jacks must be operated individually after the first leg contacts the
ground until each jack leg has contacted the ground.

When lifting a camper it is always extremely important to lift while
camper is remaining level. If one corner of the truck camper is allowed
to drop lower than level, there is a weight redistribution. It is a
little known fact that one inch drop of a corner will add much
additional weight to the jack on the low corner. The front should
always be kept higher than the rear because this also distributes weight
from the front, the heaviest half of the camper, to the rear, the
lightest. Make sure to always have very solid jack footing. Gravel is
a very big problem. Campers can become very unstable in a hurry.

Happijac has formulated The Golden Rules of Camper Handling. They are:

1. Always keep the front of the camper higher than the rear. Never
allow the front of the camper to become lower than the back.

2. Always keep the camper level side-to-side. Stop frequently when
loading and unloading to ensure camper is level side-to-side and the
front is slightly higher than the rear.

3. Never leave the camper in an elevated position supported by jacks.
Lower the camper to the ground or support weight on fixed platforms.

4. Always ensure that camper is clear of the truck bed when backing and
pulling out.

5. Always remember that you are moving a dynamic load weighing
thousands of pounds.
A dynamic load refers to weight shift. If a corner of the camper drops
just a couple of inches, the weight redistribution is significant. It
is like having a pan of water and you shift it off from level, the
water/weight rushes to the low spot. This condition can potentially
damage a camper and associated equipment. The vector forces dictate
weight distribution."

#86 OFFLINE   PigPen

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 03:59 AM

Not necessarily, but certainly that advice is good.

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#87 OFFLINE   RichConley

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 07:06 AM

None of those "Golden rules" from Happijac were included with our camper literature pack.
And the photos show the victim did have the jacks on gravel. . .
Perhaps the photos are a good example of an extremely dangerous situation and potential results?

#88 OFFLINE   PigPen

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 09:26 AM

Well let's just say having witnessed one incident, I am now far more careful unloading & loading & i do it as little as possible.

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#89 OFFLINE   nstate

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 10:39 PM

Hello guys. Well my wife and i just got back from Boise,Idaho(11 hrs.each way) where we purchased a like new 2007 Host Yellowstone. We traveled back while staying the night in the desert. Had a great time. I left the camper on the truck for a couple of days before mustering up the courage yesterday to remove it. I am no longer going to park it along side the shop in the dirt(no gravel there just dirt and grass while using blocks. Now it's sitting on my level concrete infront of my garage. But the removal went smoothly. I really took my time and stopped often. I did lower it almost to the ground. This too has the ATWOOD jacks and i'll be checking for water. The jacks are certainly strong as far as lifting, but with it even lowered almost to the concrete you can feel it shifting around as you walk around in it. I used a tall ladder to measure it on my truck and it's 11'(not including the Ac but rather the top of roof. So you figure a few more inches to clear the bed higher on those jacks are extended. I didn't want to use the wood blocks anymore as i was just alittle spooked so i went directly on the concrete. So all went well and were happy to be in a nice camper(actually this thing is mint, one owner, always garaged). Shame to have lost the other one though.
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#90 OFFLINE   PigPen

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 10:44 PM

I use Ikea cutting boards, they work great.

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#91 OFFLINE   Halibutman

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 01:24 PM

I kept following this thread with high hopes that at some point and time we would find out with reasonable certainty what caused these failures (and in my opinion they were in fact "failures"), however, I have just about given up on that ever happening. With everything that has been said, I can say with reasonable certainty that we know no more than we did in the beginning. One positive I did take from this is I am much more careful when loading/unloading as far as having both my truck and my kids away from the camper. As far as where I load/unload I see no reason to change a thing, dirt, gravel, asphalt, as long as it's solid ground I'm happy. I think these failures would have occured regardless if the Golden Rules, the Ten Commandments or what ever would have been followed to the letter.
For anyone that has ever dealt with Torklift do you think they would have taken the don't give a damn attitude about any of their products. I think not!

#92 OFFLINE   kevbo

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 01:15 PM

I am a bit late to this party, found the board & thread when searching for info to repair my Lance after an entirely my fault mishap occured on the devil's own unimproved road. I caught two jacks on fallen trees, damaging a rear corner, and completely ripping out a front corner.

Some observations from an engineers viewpoint:

-It should be entirely expected that all of these failures were due to the front jack(s) folding. Not only does the front jack carry much more weight, but on big campers (not my 8.5 footer) the rear jack has addional side support from that clamp attached to the rear skirt/basement area. The front jacks have a huge overhang and will always be the weak link that fails if all the front and rear jacks are the same.

-It has been mentioned these were all on DRW applications with swing out brackets. I'm not real familiar with these brackets, but I don't see it being a major factor. It seems to me that if there were give in the bracket, it would make the camper less stable, but also put less bending force on the jack...the bracket would flex instead of bending the jack. My gut feel is that big heavy campers need duallys and it is the big heavy campers that are the shared root cause rather than the DRW brackets. OR maybe the the brackets reduce stability enough to let it get started, then don't give enough to prevent the jacks bending?

-The photos suggest to me that the camper pivoted around one rear foot. If so, then the other rear foot would have slid, or broke out the rear corner, which is what appears to have happened. Nasty.

What can be done to reduce the risk:

On dirt or even asphalt (not concrete) I would be tempted to drill a hole in the feet, and drive a large spike into the ground so the feet could not slide. If none of the feet can slide, then to fall the camper has to corkscrew down which requires three of the jacks to bend or rip out of the corners. Seems like my Atwood jacks already have a hole in the feet.

Possibly a diagonal brace a foot or so down on the jack and running back and up to the front tie down point on the camper. This would probably have to detatch in order for the dually bracket to swing in. A crosswise brace would be good, but of course the truck bed is in the way of that. This would brace against bending in only one direction, but that would reduce the total bending on the leg, and might be enough to prevent mishap.

Remember the old days with those hard cranking acme screw jacks that had the big tripod feet? All the stability (such as there was!) came from that base rather than from the camper mount, which was pretty much just a shelf that the side overhang sat on. Newer jacks take all thier stability from the camper mount. Why not combine the two approaches? If our jacks had such a base, then to collapse they would have to bend into an "S" rather than just a "C" curve, and would take a lot more side load before that happened. This would probably reqire removing the round foot to allow it to plug into a socket on the base. Seems like removing the existing feet might be a good way to keep them from holding water.

Of course such a base must allow the rear tire to drive over for loading and unloading, so the inner foot or feet would need to be low profile. Two front jacks could maybe share a bar running between them, sort of like the stable-lift unit does.

A bit expensive, but another thought would be to double up on the front jacks. Manual ones could share the crank shaft (they run all the way through the top bracket) not sure how you would sync electrics...maybe they would stay in sync if you jus wired them in paralell, and coupled the lower sections togethor?

It seems to me that the jacks have enough power and the screw is strong enough to take the weight. It would be a bit of a project, but you could probably use the ballscrew and other guts from the jack, and build it into larger, thicker tubing. Probably only the upper/outer tube needs to be stronger...the inner tube has not nearly so much leverage acting on it. Alternativly the entire jack could be kept as is and operate the heavy-duty telescopic strut either from inside, of be fitted to one side.

#93 OFFLINE   RichConley

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 06:59 AM

Thanks for adding your insight.
Also a little late to this commentary, but could the jack failure issue be why some campgrounds won't allow the camper to be taken off the truck? It could be a potential liability problem?

#94 OFFLINE   Halibutman

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Posted 19 January 2011 - 01:16 PM

I am a bit late to this party, found the board & thread when searching for info to repair my Lance after an entirely my fault mishap occured on the devil's own unimproved road. I caught two jacks on fallen trees, damaging a rear corner, and completely ripping out a front corner.

Some observations from an engineers viewpoint:

-It should be entirely expected that all of these failures were due to the front jack(s) folding. Not only does the front jack carry much more weight, but on big campers (not my 8.5 footer) the rear jack has addional side support from that clamp attached to the rear skirt/basement area. The front jacks have a huge overhang and will always be the weak link that fails if all the front and rear jacks are the same.

-It has been mentioned these were all on DRW applications with swing out brackets. I'm not real familiar with these brackets, but I don't see it being a major factor. It seems to me that if there were give in the bracket, it would make the camper less stable, but also put less bending force on the jack...the bracket would flex instead of bending the jack. My gut feel is that big heavy campers need duallys and it is the big heavy campers that are the shared root cause rather than the DRW brackets. OR maybe the the brackets reduce stability enough to let it get started, then don't give enough to prevent the jacks bending?

-The photos suggest to me that the camper pivoted around one rear foot. If so, then the other rear foot would have slid, or broke out the rear corner, which is what appears to have happened. Nasty.

What can be done to reduce the risk:

On dirt or even asphalt (not concrete) I would be tempted to drill a hole in the feet, and drive a large spike into the ground so the feet could not slide. If none of the feet can slide, then to fall the camper has to corkscrew down which requires three of the jacks to bend or rip out of the corners. Seems like my Atwood jacks already have a hole in the feet.

Possibly a diagonal brace a foot or so down on the jack and running back and up to the front tie down point on the camper. This would probably have to detatch in order for the dually bracket to swing in. A crosswise brace would be good, but of course the truck bed is in the way of that. This would brace against bending in only one direction, but that would reduce the total bending on the leg, and might be enough to prevent mishap.

Remember the old days with those hard cranking acme screw jacks that had the big tripod feet? All the stability (such as there was!) came from that base rather than from the camper mount, which was pretty much just a shelf that the side overhang sat on. Newer jacks take all thier stability from the camper mount. Why not combine the two approaches? If our jacks had such a base, then to collapse they would have to bend into an "S" rather than just a "C" curve, and would take a lot more side load before that happened. This would probably reqire removing the round foot to allow it to plug into a socket on the base. Seems like removing the existing feet might be a good way to keep them from holding water.

Of course such a base must allow the rear tire to drive over for loading and unloading, so the inner foot or feet would need to be low profile. Two front jacks could maybe share a bar running between them, sort of like the stable-lift unit does.

A bit expensive, but another thought would be to double up on the front jacks. Manual ones could share the crank shaft (they run all the way through the top bracket) not sure how you would sync electrics...maybe they would stay in sync if you jus wired them in paralell, and coupled the lower sections togethor?

It seems to me that the jacks have enough power and the screw is strong enough to take the weight. It would be a bit of a project, but you could probably use the ballscrew and other guts from the jack, and build it into larger, thicker tubing. Probably only the upper/outer tube needs to be stronger...the inner tube has not nearly so much leverage acting on it. Alternativly the entire jack could be kept as is and operate the heavy-duty telescopic strut either from inside, of be fitted to one side.

I really hate to do anything to get this thread going again but missed the engineers view. If EVERYTHING you say here is true then the weak link is NOT the jacks but the manufacturers for putting jacks on a camper that can't withstand some lateral stress. For the love of god I still have trouble believing that at no time did an insurance company have a metallurgist or some professional in this area examine these jacks for failure. Maybe we could once and for all put this to rest.

#95 OFFLINE   Tillerman

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 08:49 AM

When I look at the pictures for the broken jacks invariably it seems they break off at the bottom of the support for the front of the camper. Perhaps what we need is a triple tube jack, much like a drawer slide that extends the drawer out all the way past the edge of a cabinet.

If a jack was built that had a middle tube that was forced out first so part of it remained inside the upper part of the outer tube that is mounted to the camper, then the inner tube extended out of that, there would alwasy be a double layer of protection up where it is needed near the top of the jack.

#96 OFFLINE   nstate

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 10:00 PM

Good points. I have the bent jack here at my house. I kept it after the camper was hauled off to the salvage yard. I was plaaning to cut the tube in half to examine it abit. I believe i could remove the Atwood HD motor and replace the tubes with thicker DOM tubes. I would like to do this on all four of mine. I feel .125" wall DOM tube would be a significant increase in strength, especially at full loading height where this failure took place. I have replaced that camper with the same one(2007 Host 1160 Yellowstone double slide). It is a large heavy camper and at loading height does wobble.
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#97 OFFLINE   Shellback

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 05:02 AM

I think if I had a heavy camper, I'd reinforce my jacks. Looking at the pictures on the first page, I'd use a 30" to 36" piece of 1" angle iron with about 1/8" thickness. I'd then lay it down the jack tube starting at the top of the bracket and weld it solid down the bracket, and then tack weld it every couple inches along the tube to the end of the angle. I'd do this in the front of the jack, and the rear of the jack. Doing that should stiffen it up plenty for any side stress.

#98 OFFLINE   farmer

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 08:52 AM

With the camper manufacturers now making more double and triple slide campers.
The camper jack companies should come out with heavier duty jacks.

It's like putting a 4000 lb. Camper on a 1/2 ton, it will fit, but should you really do it.

#99 OFFLINE   ralphl

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 09:13 AM

With the camper manufacturers now making more double and triple slide campers.
The camper jack companies should come out with heavier duty jacks.

It's like putting a 4000 lb. Camper on a 1/2 ton, it will fit, but should you really do it.

I think the x boards are by far the best solution. I wont unload without the anymore. A great idea and i thank the forum for it
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#100 OFFLINE   Tileman

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 07:38 PM

I have a pretty light weight camper with hydraulic jacks but it still is nerve racking since my pu is kinda tall. My driveway has a pretty good downward slope so I came up with a sweet solution. I lagged a small chunk of chain into the garage sill and one into the 6"x6" corner fence post. Now when I jack my camper up I ratchet strap it to the tie downs and at about 34" off the ground and strapped to the house it is rock solid. I think any kinda bracing will help the jacks out tremendously...




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